+++
@ 9:30
09:30
you know that’s just the way it is i
09:32
like that one thing that you talked
09:33
about was
09:34
obviously going into the study of
09:36
ancient
09:37
language in the history of the bible
09:40
i’ve always been fascinated with that
09:41
because i remember getting saved
09:43
at an early age and i say early in my
09:45
20s but i remember thinking
09:47
like there’s got to be so much more that
09:49
we’re missing now i don’t have i don’t
09:51
know anything about hebrew but i just
09:53
remember
09:53
thinking that sitting in church thinking
09:56
out of all the people
09:57
how many times it’s been rewritten
09:59
different languages
10:01
again like you said the person who wrote
10:03
it
10:04
understanding the culture like there’s
10:06
so much behind it
10:08
that we don’t get so at that
10:11
at some point what was like one of the
10:13
first things i’m just curious for you
10:15
that was like
10:16
an aha like oh my gosh we’ve been we’ve
10:20
heard this or been taught this
10:22
for years but this is really what it’s
10:24
saying
10:25
and i’m guessing you’ve had a lot of
10:27
those but do you remember like the first
10:29
one or two
10:30
yeah boy that that’s that is a that’s a
10:33
really good question maybe
10:34
and it’s difficult because there are a
10:36
bunch of these wow
10:38
something early i think you know just
10:40
will be a bit of a generalization but i
10:42
remember
10:43
sitting in my first bible class and just
10:46
realizing and hearing that there were
10:48
things there were things to think about
10:51
in the sort of core fundamental ideas
10:54
of the faith like okay jesus is god okay
10:57
jesus is god and man well
10:59
i remember you know learning that that
11:01
was that was controversial you know like
11:03
and how does that work where does the
11:04
soul come from you know learning like
11:06
here are the possibilities and and then
11:08
not only that but but actually being
11:09
taken into scripture
11:10
different passages and learning you know
11:13
essentially how
11:14
to think through a passage and what what
11:16
the possibilities are i mean later on i
11:18
can give you give you the specific sort
11:20
of watershed moment
11:21
for me in graduate school and that was i
11:24
relate this in the opening chapter of
11:26
unseen realm i was
11:28
you know i had taught biblical studies
11:30
for five years
11:31
i had two master’s degrees i’m in a
11:33
doctoral program in hebrew studies in
11:35
other words i’m not a newbie
11:37
okay and i’m sitting there in church
11:39
killing some time before the service and
11:41
i had a friend who was also in the
11:42
hebrew department there with me and
11:44
i don’t remember what we talked about
11:45
but i will never forget the way the
11:47
conversation ended
11:48
he handed me his hebrew bible and he
11:51
said you need to read
11:52
psalm 82 in hebrew and and so i did and
11:56
it it it’s not difficult the first verse
11:58
is the lightning bolt
11:59
it says elohim god elohim very familiar
12:03
term for god
12:04
stands in the divine council and then
12:06
the next line is
12:08
the care of elohim yishpot in the midst
12:10
of the gods
12:11
elohim there a second time but it has to
12:13
be plural because it’s in the midst of
12:15
can’t be in the midst of one in the
12:16
midst of the gods he passes judgment
12:18
and these plural elohim these gods are
12:21
called sons of the most high in verse
12:23
six and i’m looking at that
12:25
and i thought how have i never seen that
12:28
before
12:28
that sounds like a pantheon and it was
12:31
like i don’t remember any of the sermon
12:32
you know
12:33
i was like i could not let go of that it
12:36
was so alarming
12:37
and fortunately providentially i had a
12:39
second thought
12:40
as a as i was looking at this i thought
12:42
i bet jesus knew this passage
12:45
i bet paul knew it i bet the disciples
12:47
knew it there must be a way
12:49
to understand this and still have a
12:52
trinity still have
12:53
the uniqueness of the god of israel you
12:55
know the god of the bible
12:57
there must be a way that this makes
12:59
sense and
13:00
again i had a lot of bible under my belt
13:02
and i had never seen that i went off and
13:04
i looked at evangelical sources there
13:06
was a massive
13:07
new book about the doctrine of god a
13:09
very famous professor at a famous
13:11
evangelical school
13:12
he didn’t even have psalm 82 in his
13:14
index it was a 600 page book on the
13:15
doctrine of god didn’t even have it in
13:17
his index
13:18
i’d go to commentaries and they’d say
13:19
things like oh the elohim here they’re
13:21
just people
13:22
right right so when we go over to psalm
13:24
89 and you have the same setting a
13:25
divine council of divine assembly
13:27
with the sons of god it says they’re in
13:29
the sky in the heavens hey the last time
13:31
i read my bible
13:32
there isn’t a bunch of jewish guys
13:34
running or you know floating around the
13:35
sky
13:35
ruling anything yeah you know it just it
13:38
just didn’t make sense and
13:39
i i discerned really quickly that okay
13:41
this is something that is systematically
13:43
avoided
13:44
and it became my obsession it became the
13:46
topic of my dissertation
13:48
it just it just took me down all sorts
13:50
of roads
13:51
and now that i’m on the other side i i
13:53
can i can actually say well there is
13:55
there is a very clear coherent you know
13:57
answer to this elohim just
13:59
it creeps us out because we we see the
14:02
letters g o
14:03
and d and our brain because we’re
14:05
westerners and we’re modern
14:07
you know we have all these church
14:08
traditions behind us our brain just
14:10
assigns a specific set of unique
14:13
attributes to the letters g o and d
14:15
that’s why you don’t put an
14:16
s on it creeps us out well the biblical
14:18
writer didn’t think that way about the
14:21
term elohim how do we know that mike
14:22
because we have a phd and so we just bow
14:24
to your knowledge no
14:26
we know that because of how elohim is
14:28
used by the biblical writers there’s
14:30
there’s six different things called
14:31
elohim in the hebrew bible
14:33
it’s not about attributes it’s just a
14:35
word that says
14:36
it’s a disembodied spiritual being
14:38
that’s all it’s a spirit it’s a spirit
14:40
being well there’s lots of those
14:41
but there’s only one god of israel
14:43
there’s only one
14:44
yahweh and and i had to figure that out
14:47
something as simple as that
14:48
i couldn’t find in an evangelical work
14:51
it was like nobody ever thought of it
14:52
had nobody to talk
14:53
talk about it and i mean so that again
14:56
became an
14:56
orienting point in my dissertation then
14:58
i discovered when i discovered what i
15:00
would you know i call divine plurality
15:02
it’s like well
15:03
there’s got to be a godhead you know
15:05
this has to relate to the godhead in
15:07
some way
15:07
and so that took me you know into into
15:10
the fact that early judaism
15:12
used to teach a godhead they referred to
15:14
it as two powers in heaven
15:16
you know two yahweh figures you know
15:17
that a father and a son kind of figured
15:19
i thought wait a minute you know the
15:20
jews used to teach this
15:22
until the the second century this is
15:24
this is what prepped
15:26
people in the first century for the for
15:28
the trinity for jesus as god you know in
15:30
human form and
15:31
i mean it just took me down all sorts of
15:33
roads and i remember
15:34
sitting in the library and i and i’m
15:36
tracking on this i’m tracking on
15:37
everything i just mentioned it and a
15:39
dozen other
15:40
topics you know it and i thought to
15:42
myself there’s just something wrong with
15:44
this
15:44
i’m sitting here and i and i have all
15:47
this bible under my belt
15:48
and i am experiencing the thrill of
15:50
rediscovery
15:51
but i know that the stuff that’s just
15:54
you know
15:55
sort of putting my mind on fire here and
15:57
really helping me
15:58
understand lots of things in scripture
16:01
i never heard any of these things in
16:03
church i’ve never heard yeah i was gonna
16:05
say
16:06
half of your book i’ve never heard and
16:08
and i and i know people are never going
16:10
to hear this and
16:11
i just remember sitting there thinking
16:13
you know what i can do that
16:15
i i can learn this stuff and i can
16:18
you know communicate this to the person
16:20
outside the guild outside the academy
16:23
because whether a lot of people don’t
16:24
realize that even believing you know
16:26
faithful believing
16:27
scholars you know they’re they’re truly
16:29
saved i mean they they trust christ
16:31
but the way scholars even believing
16:33
scholars talk about the bible
16:36
is dramatically different than what you
16:38
hear in church
16:39
and and that bothered me because i
16:41
thought you know you ought to be trying
16:42
to communicate
16:44
the really good stuff the really
16:47
powerful insights
16:48
into all sorts of passages you ought to
16:50
try to be deliberately
16:52
intentionally trying to communicate that
16:54
to just the normal person
16:56
but instead what we’ve got is we’ve got
16:58
jesus as the cosmic life coach
17:00
you know on sunday mornings we’ve got
17:02
the same sunday school stories but now
17:04
they have adult illustrations
17:06
again the whole my whole thing about
17:07
sunday school should not be forever
17:09
you know people are just stuck and
17:11
intelligent people
17:12
thinking people know when they’re being
17:15
asked not to think
17:16
and i just thought you know this it’s
17:18
like it’s like i was born to do this
17:20
because i really
17:21
cared about it and i had the tools i had
17:23
the training to do it
17:25
and so you know if i’m about anything if
17:28
i can use that it’s trying to
17:30
you know help people really understand
17:32
scripture
17:33
well i have a podcast called the naked
17:35
bible we call it that because it’s the
17:37
bible unfiltered i’m not putting any
17:39
clothes on it okay
17:40
i’m not filtering it through creeds or
17:42
traditions or denominations it’s
17:44
just the bible that it just by itself in
17:46
its own context
17:48
and i’m not hostile to those things i’m
17:50
a member of a church i’m an elder
17:52
i think that that’s important but at the
17:54
end of the day
17:55
creeds and denominational distinctives
17:57
are not scripture
17:59
and they are foreign contexts to the
18:01
bible okay they are not
18:03
the original context of the bible the
18:04
context that produced the thing and so
18:06
this is what i have become sort of about
18:09
trying to help people
18:10
look at the text just take the text for
18:12
what it is in its own context
18:15
and then you know just roll with that
18:18
you know just just roll with that and
18:19
you and you’ll be able to to see
18:21
scripture in a different way and again
18:22
read it again for the first time that
18:24
sort of thing and i know
18:25
again it’s not marketing shtick i say
18:27
that stuff because that’s exactly what
18:29
happened to me
18:30
and again i i wasn’t a newbie i’m in a
18:31
doctoral program
18:33
okay but it’s exactly what happened to
18:34
me i wanna okay so i wanna go
18:37
to this at what point because your stuff
18:40
i’m gonna say i think you’re gonna agree
18:42
with me but some of your teachings some
18:44
of your stuff has got to split hairs
18:45
and which makes it kind of fun actually
18:48
what was the first time
18:49
that you taught or what did you teach
18:52
that really just kind of got
18:54
your typical church leader or people
18:56
just in a frenzy
18:57
because i mean i read through your stuff
18:59
you talk about ufos
19:01
the the nephilim and which i think i’m
19:04
pronouncing wrong and ultimate which i
19:05
knew about those
19:06
there’s so many topics that you talk
19:08
about that i really think would bother
19:10
people
19:10
that do you remember your first one or
19:14
one that comes to your mind uh that you
19:16
taught on yeah i
19:17
i think in in terms of of people being
19:20
troubled
19:20
it’s probably either the divine counsel
19:23
in psalm 82
19:24
or it’s this is going to sound really
19:26
weird or it was the idea that that the
19:28
serpent in genesis 3
19:30
wasn’t a member of the animal kingdom
19:32
and and we we already
19:33
know that because of the new testament
19:35
you know satan you know
19:36
is an angel of light and he’s the devil
19:38
and the serb you know but but it’s
19:39
amazing how how when you actually say
19:42
or suggest that eve could have been
19:44
talking to a divine being
19:46
that you know she knew was was not just
19:48
a an animal or something like that or
19:50
then there’s different ways to take the
19:52
hebrew term nakash it can be translated
19:54
shining one for instance which is a
19:56
stock description of a divine being
19:57
it can be translated the one the one who
19:59
dispenses divine knowledge well he’s
20:01
certainly doing that he’s trying to lead
20:02
her astray doesn’t have to even be
20:04
serpent it just depends
20:06
so stuff like that even though it’s very
20:08
consistent
20:10
with what we would call theological
20:12
orthodox
20:13
well i never heard that in church so
20:14
there must be something wrong with it
20:15
you know you must you’re trying to be
20:17
clever here and deceive me it’s like no
20:18
i’m just
20:19
it’s just the text i’m as scary as the
20:21
text is there it is
20:22
so a couple of those things but you know
20:24
you mentioned the the ufo stuff
20:26
people have to realize your listeners
20:28
have to realize i’m into all sorts of
20:30
kind of fringy pop culture things
20:34
because a lot of those things like ufos
20:37
ancient aliens and whatnot the people
20:40
trying to
20:40
peddle those kind of world views use the
20:43
bible
20:44
to do it oh yeah oh ancient aliens you
20:46
know
20:47
ezekiel 1 that was a ufo you know don’t
20:49
don’t you realize that haven’t you read
20:51
your bible you don’t even know your
20:52
bible you know
20:53
it’s all that kind of stuff chariots of
20:55
fire oh those are ufos you know
20:57
all this kind of stuff you know jesus is
20:59
just one of them you know it it they
21:02
just go
21:02
they rape and pillage the scripture all
21:04
the time but they’re not the only ones
21:05
there’s a lot of things
21:07
out there on the internet with
21:08
revisionist views of jesus
21:11
all sorts of what i call paleo babel you
21:13
know just just nonsense about the
21:15
ancient
21:16
world and the bible you know hey did you
21:18
know that that the line of cain was
21:20
fathered by the serpent that the serpent
21:21
and eve
21:22
actually you know had sex and then
21:23
produced this other you know this is
21:25
where we get the black race from
21:26
you know it it is a cesspool of the
21:29
bazaar and
21:30
and since i i’m an ancient text guy i’m
21:32
an ancient history guy
21:34
and so i feel like it’s my obligation to
21:36
be the still small voice that’s mostly
21:39
ignored
21:39
um in in the world of the internet what
21:41
i call christian middle earth or just
21:43
middle earth
21:44
you know on youtube and the internet
21:45
that i should be trying to say
21:47
something to get people to think better
21:50
about their bible
21:52
a lot of these people you know i’ll be
21:54
honest with you like i’ll go and speak
21:55
at ufo conferences okay i’ve been about
21:58
half a dozen of these things
21:59
and if i had a dollar or maybe five five
22:01
five dollars for every
22:03
time either at one of those things or
22:05
when i do a show like coast to coast am
22:08
you know the late night show one of
22:10
these paranormal shows for
22:12
every person that said you know i used
22:13
to be a christian until
22:15
and then it’s until i saw ancient aliens
22:18
until i read eric von danigan’s chariots
22:20
of the gods
22:21
until i read zechariah sitchins the 12th
22:23
planet until i didn’t get this question
22:25
answered in church
22:26
until when i asked this question the
22:28
pastor thought that i needed therapy you
22:30
know
22:31
and and dismissed me i mean just fill in
22:33
the blank there there are a lot of
22:35
people
22:35
out there who basically because
22:38
they had questions and ran into things
22:41
that that their
22:42
authority figures could not answer that
22:44
they just left the faith
22:45
they just took off that’s sad they
22:48
assume it is sad and
22:49
it infuriates me because the reasons are
22:51
so stupid but
22:52
at the same time i understand it because
22:55
when they ask certain questions
22:57
and the pastor doesn’t have an answer or
22:59
just doesn’t want to touch that puppy
23:01
with a 10-foot pole
23:02
they are led to assume wrongly that
23:04
there aren’t answers that you’re hiding
23:06
something
23:07
the church is hiding something from me
23:09
there’s this alternative
23:10
other world out here and i’m going to go
23:12
on i’m going to you know google is going
23:14
to be my church now you know and he’s
23:15
it’s going to be my source of spiritual
23:17
teaching they just do this and so i
23:19
write fiction
23:20
to try to piggyback theology on fiction
23:22
i write paranormal science fiction
23:25
stuff i’ll speak at these conferences i
23:27
do again these new age shows
23:29
i do pagan talk shows it’s really
23:32
for for people who have left the faith i
23:34
want them to i want to give them answers
23:37
and i want to say look
23:38
i understand your reaction and maybe you
23:40
were harmed by a christian
23:41
in some way i thought it’s typically
23:43
some issue a personal pain
23:44
that i’ve found anyway but i want you to
23:47
reconsider
23:48
you know how you’re thinking about the
23:50
bible in this way
23:51
and i understand you know in some
23:53
respects if i thought this
23:55
you know what what this christian told
23:56
you hey i’d be i’d be with you you know
23:58
but
23:58
but there’s a better way to think about
24:00
it so i if you if you can you know
24:02
reconsider we can have a conversation
24:04
or if people are just totally outside i
24:07
like to
24:07
to be into things that they find
24:09
fascinating enough to at least get them
24:12
to the table to have a spiritual
24:13
conversation because i’ll be honest with
24:15
you
24:16
you can have better and deeper spiritual
24:18
discussions at a ufo conference than you
24:20
can in church
24:22
that’s funny because those people are
24:24
primed they are
24:26
primed to think about big picture things
24:29
why are we here right is there god if
24:32
there’s a god what what’s he like
24:34
you know is there more than one like
24:35
what’s our destiny here why are we here
24:38
you know they’re they’re just primed to
24:40
think about questions that are
24:42
ultimately very theological and and so
24:45
you can really have
24:46
good discussions you know with people
24:48
and again try to try to
24:49
talk them in off the ledge a little bit
24:51
you know so that you can again
24:52
engage them with with who jesus is and
24:55
how god looks at them and you know
24:57
god wanting them and his family you know
24:59
try to try to do something affirming in
25:01
that way but but not
25:02
not go after them and rail against them
25:05
and dismiss them and say you know you’re
25:06
just
25:07
you’re just a nut case and you know it’s
25:09
a mixed bag so i’m into all sorts of
25:11
this stuff i
25:12
i do biblical scholarship straight
25:14
biblical scholarship you know
25:16
write for peer review and all that stuff
25:17
and i have a job that lends itself to
25:19
that but i
25:20
i what really drives me is to try to
25:23
again communicate biblical content to
25:25
people
25:26
just for the non-specialist and then try
25:29
to help
25:29
people think well about scripture i
25:31
don’t like when primary texts like the
25:34
bible
25:34
are abused i don’t like when people are
25:36
manipulated with them
25:38
it just pushes my buttons you know when
25:40
you know when i see that happening
25:42
so after i got done reading supernatural
25:45
the one thought that came to my mind and
25:48
in the parallel list and maybe you can
25:50
bring i’m just curious but it made me
25:52
think of like zeus
25:54
and then like the god of water because
25:58
you’re talking about god so and then i
25:59
start thinking about
26:00
demigods and like all of that which i’ve
26:03
never totally explored but i’ve seen
26:05
movies and stuff
26:06
and uh how does all that play because
26:10
i just i don’t believe in coincidence so
26:12
that to me that is almost like another
26:15
what is it the greek version of it i i
26:17
don’t know i mean you tell me but i’m
26:19
like
26:19
all i could think of was all these
26:21
movies that i’ve watched that almost
26:23
are parallel to what you’ve written
26:27
except from a non-biblical perspective
26:30
yeah well i think a good a good segue
26:33
into this would be
26:34
the the pagan talk show that i’ve been
26:36
on uh two times
26:37
and and this guy his faith if you can
26:39
call it that his religion i guess
26:41
or to he worships the gods of greece and
26:44
rome you know
26:44
zeus apollo and all this kind of stuff
26:46
and so he uh had read
26:48
supernatural and he wanted to talk and
26:51
you know i’ve been on twice and he
26:53
really enjoyed it and i enjoyed it too
26:55
because in his words he he said you know
26:57
it’s really rare for me to find somebody
27:00
that speaks my language
27:01
and the thing that he didn’t realize in
27:03
going in but when he realized when he
27:05
when he read the book is that
27:07
this whole what i call the deuteronomy
27:09
32 world view
27:11
about the gods you know and god
27:13
forsaking the nations and putting them
27:14
assigning them to lesser gods he goes
27:16
because that that’s part of greek and
27:18
roman thinking
27:19
you know that and i said well you sure
27:20
acts 17 you know
27:22
paul alludes to that you know when he’s
27:24
talking to the athenians there so we
27:26
actually had common ground
27:27
and you know when he asked me kind of
27:29
the same question he would ask things
27:31
like so what does the god of israel want
27:33
oh i’m glad you asked you know you know
27:36
we can talk about
27:37
how the bible really lays this out and
27:39
so for your listeners i think
27:40
you know to be aware that these other
27:42
systems are
27:44
actually in terms of world view very
27:46
consistent with
27:47
biblical thinking the difference the
27:49
main distinction
27:50
is who is most high and why
27:53
and what does that mean now i’ll
27:56
illustrate it this way if you ask the
27:57
average
27:58
christian hey why is the world so messed
28:00
up you know why is it so bad you know
28:01
what all this depravity you know what
28:03
why the average christian would say oh
28:05
that’s the fall okay if you ask the same
28:07
question of an israelite
28:09
or a first century jew that is not the
28:11
answer you would get you would get the
28:12
answer that would say well
28:13
there’s actually three reasons why the
28:15
world is so hopelessly messed up
28:17
now the fall is the first one because
28:18
that’s where we have rebellion both
28:20
divine and human enter into god’s you
28:22
know good world that he’s created
28:24
and so that that kick-starts the problem
28:26
the second
28:27
problem is what happens in genesis six
28:29
one through four
28:30
and it’s not so much that the weird
28:32
nephilim stuff because
28:33
they don’t you know they’re they’re
28:34
taken care of in biblical days according
28:36
you know to the old testament
28:38
what’s worse about that is they are
28:40
blamed with teaching humans all sorts of
28:43
things that really
28:44
help humans destroy themselves and turn
28:46
their hearts to idolatry so that’s
28:48
number two
28:49
and number three is what happens at
28:51
babel now we all know the story
28:52
of the tower of babel and we heard that
28:54
one in church but what you don’t hear is
28:56
deuteronomy 32 8
28:57
- it says when the most high divided up
29:00
the nations
29:01
he divided them up according to the
29:02
number of the sons of god okay but
29:04
israel is yahweh’s portion jacob is his
29:08
allotted inheritance and deuteronomy 4
29:10
says it deuteronomy 17 do it on may 29
29:13
you track this idea what what happens is
29:15
god’s there we’re after the flood
29:17
okay god has said he repeated the
29:19
eudenic mandate be fruitful multiply now
29:21
go out there and kick start eden we want
29:22
to restore that we all know that it you
29:24
know it got ruined
29:26
we’re going to restore that so i’m
29:28
giving you the same commands i gave to
29:30
adam and eve so what do they do well
29:31
they
29:31
well let’s let’s go to babylon and build
29:33
a ziggurat what’s a ziggurat ziggurat is
29:35
part of a temple complex you built a
29:36
ziggurat
29:37
to locate the deity to bring the deity
29:40
to you
29:41
okay to so you set the terms and god’s
29:44
like
29:44
uh excuse me but i will not be tamed
29:47
okay i am not
29:48
at your beck and call and god decides
29:51
okay you don’t want to listen to me
29:53
again i’m going to disinherit you i’m
29:55
going to divorce you
29:56
when the most high divide of the nations
29:58
you know you divide them up according to
29:59
the number of the sons of god
30:00
i’m going to divorce myself from you and
+++
30:00
i’m going to divorce myself from you and
30:02
i’m going to assign
30:04
lesser divine beings lesser elohim less
30:06
you know sons of god
30:08
to be your placeholders they’re going to
30:09
be your caretakers now you don’t want to
30:11
want to be
30:12
you know in line with me i’m going to
30:14
turn you over to them now that that
30:15
situation
30:16
turns out really badly we know that from
30:18
psalm 82 these are the sons of the most
30:20
high the sons of god that
30:22
are getting judged and excoriated by god
30:25
himself
30:26
in psalm 82. they become corrupt they
30:28
rule chaotically they seduce the
30:30
israelites into worshiping them this is
30:32
the old testament explanation
30:33
so real quick mike are they angels are
30:36
they
30:37
spiritual beings like they’re they’re
30:39
spiritual beings
30:40
angel is actually a job description okay
30:43
it doesn’t really it’s
30:44
it’s a term that that doesn’t tell you
30:46
what a thing is
30:47
it tells you what a thing does it’s a
30:49
messenger okay
30:51
so these are spiritual beings and and
30:53
the rest of the old testament
30:55
but we don’t know where they came from
30:56
correct they’re they’re all created
30:58
beings i mean you have psalm 148 you’ve
31:00
got psalm 33
31:01
nehemiah and i mean god gets god created
31:03
all things
31:04
visible and invisible colossians 1 16.
31:08
and and they were originally working for
31:11
him
31:11
but when they get assigned to the
31:12
nations they go astray
31:15
they become hostile they become
31:16
adversarial they don’t rule
31:18
according to to god’s good justice you
31:21
know his
31:22
what the way he wants the nations run
31:24
he’s they’re human beings
31:25
they’re still created in his image god
31:27
wants them taken care of
31:28
but but what he does when he divorces
31:31
himself from them
31:32
it’s it’s a judgment it’s a punishment
31:34
and then he turns around right after
31:35
babylon what what does the biblical
31:37
story say is the next event god calls
31:39
abraham
31:39
he says look watch i’m disinheriting i’m
31:42
divorcing myself from a personal
31:44
relationship with the rest of you with
31:46
all you nations
31:47
and you got lesser lesser you know
31:48
placeholders now watch what i do
31:50
i’m going to create a new people from
31:53
nothing
31:54
and they’re going to be my people now
31:56
i’m going to make a covenant with this
31:57
guy
31:58
abraham and it’s through him he will
32:00
produce a seed a descendant one of his
32:02
descendants will be the seed
32:04
through which all of the nations will be
32:05
blessed i’m going to bring you back into
32:08
relationship with me through this guy
32:10
through this family through this race
32:12
through this this people and through one
32:13
of his seat of course we know that’s
32:15
jesus but this is the situation you know
32:17
it it goes to hell in the handbasket i
32:19
mean
32:19
you have you have actually three divine
32:21
rebellions
32:22
going on and this is why the world is so
32:24
messed up well i go on the pagans you
32:26
know
32:26
talk show and he knows all this he’s
32:28
quoting me plato he’s quoting me
32:30
you know this or that you know greek
32:32
text about how the gods are
32:34
you know assigned to different nations
32:36
and nations to other gods and i’m like
32:37
yeah
32:38
it’s the same world view but you know
32:40
what okay the most high
32:42
is the god of israel israel and you ask
32:44
me what he wants
32:45
he wants you back this is why paul in
32:48
the new testament
32:49
links the resurrection half a dozen
32:51
times with
32:52
the conquest the subduing the defeat of
32:55
the principalities and the powers and
32:57
the rulers and authorities and the
32:58
thrones and dominions
33:00
they become subservient to the
33:01
resurrected
33:03
christ okay he what christ did
33:06
delegitimizes their authority over the
33:08
nations
33:09
this is why paul goes he goes to all
33:11
these pagan places and he says look
33:12
yeah i know you know you guys we’re have
33:14
these gods because god disinherited back
33:17
and forth we can we get it okay
33:18
but i want you to know that the time has
33:20
come that in the eyes of the most high
33:23
you’re not only permitted to abandon
33:25
these gods
33:26
but he demands it he wants it you know
33:29
this becomes the
33:30
you know paul is the apostle to the
33:32
gentiles this is his message
33:34
and so the it’s a struggle now these are
33:37
real
33:38
divine entities they’re real
33:40
supernatural entities you know what
33:41
when we’re at the exodus okay when god
33:44
says in exodus 12
33:45
this night at passover this night i will
33:48
have victory over the gods of egypt
33:50
he doesn’t mean this night i will have
33:53
victory over these beings that we all
33:54
know really don’t exist
33:56
wink wink no where is where it strips
33:59
him of glory
34:00
look i got news for you we think that
34:02
the gods are just like cartoon
34:04
characters
34:05
you know or like marvel’s avengers or
34:06
something they’re not real
34:08
look i’m better than captain america
34:11
because at least
34:12
i’m real okay right you know no when
34:15
moses
34:15
says who is like you yahweh among the
34:18
gods he actually means what he says
34:21
when when scripture says that yahweh is
34:23
the god of gods
34:25
it’s not kidding okay you can’t you
34:27
otherwise you’re comparing the lord to
34:29
nothing there’s no glory in that this is
34:32
not the world view
34:34
so they understood that they understood
34:36
that there was god
34:37
like where did that break off in history
34:39
because
34:40
i have to to tell you you know i’ve i’ve
34:43
even looked at that
34:44
that way myself like well there is no
34:46
other gods there’s just god
34:48
but that’s not biblical but that’s how
34:50
most people think
34:51
i would say there’s lots of elohim out
34:53
there okay psalm 82 god is you know
34:56
judging the gods okay there’s lots of
34:57
elohim lots of spirit beings out there
34:59
and yahweh is one of them but none of
35:01
them are him okay there is none like him
35:04
either yahweh is species unique he is
35:06
their creator
35:07
you know what makes what makes the god
35:09
of israel different is not the word
35:10
elohim what makes the god of israel
35:12
different is the way he’s described
35:14
he is the lone sovereign he is the only
35:16
creator
35:17
he is the only one who gets
35:18
characterized by things like omniscience
35:20
and omnipotence
35:21
no other elohim no other you know divine
35:24
being
35:25
in the bible is ever spoken of in this
35:27
way
35:28
okay yahweh is is alone you know he he
35:30
is he is what we have always thought he
35:32
was you know traditional you know
35:34
theology here but
35:35
you have to realize this is where paul
35:37
inherits the principalities and powers
35:39
think about what the way paul describes
35:42
paul uses the word demon occasionally
35:44
okay
35:44
and you know two or three times whatever
35:47
it is but look at his vocabulary what
35:49
does he call the powers of darkness
35:50
principalities
35:51
powers rulers thrones dominions
35:54
authorities
35:54
what do they all have in common they are
35:56
all words used in the bible and outside
35:59
the bible
35:59
for geographical dominion every one of
36:02
them okay so he
36:03
paul knows what he’s dealing with mike
36:06
before we get off track
36:07
i want to ask you this though so when
36:09
when god created us
36:11
he called us to have dominion yes we
36:13
were supposed to multiply
36:14
that dominion those these places were
36:16
supposed to be ours
36:17
but we lost them right not only that but
36:20
there’s a
36:21
why do why does the new testament refer
36:23
to believers as
36:24
sons of god children of god that
36:27
language
36:28
has a deep old testament context
36:31
you know in initially you know god
36:33
creates human beings he already has a
36:34
god already has a family
36:36
job 38 the sons of god you know the
36:38
divine sons of god
36:39
are there at the creation of the
36:41
foundation of the world that he already
36:42
has a family so god decide well you know
36:44
what i’m going to create this place
36:45
called earth
36:46
and i’m going to create the different
36:48
kind of being he’s going to be
36:50
you know they’re going to be embodied
36:51
but they’re going to they’re going to be
36:52
like me they’re gonna be
36:54
imagers okay they’re gonna be my
36:55
representatives there just like you guys
36:57
or my representatives here in the
36:58
spiritual world
36:59
they’re gonna be representatives there
37:01
and you know what you know what we’re
37:02
gonna go down there
37:03
and live with them this is what eden is
37:05
eden is the place where heaven
37:06
intersects with earth
37:08
it becomes the divine abode okay the
37:10
scholars refer to it as the cosmic
37:12
mountain this is why eden is referred to
37:14
as both a garden and a mountain this is
37:15
where god’s lived gardens and mountains
37:18
in the ancient
37:18
ancient history so god comes down here
37:21
and he wants
37:22
us to be members of his family
37:26
along with his other family okay it
37:28
should be the most
37:29
normal thing in the world for humans
37:32
to be living with god in in in a
37:36
supernatural sense and context
37:38
even while you know they’re embodied
37:40
this is you know we nowadays because
37:42
we’re after the fall the new testament
37:44
talks about believers being glorified
37:46
getting new bodies you know so that they
37:48
can they are fit they are made fit for a
37:49
heavenly existence
37:51
this is what the original plan was to
37:53
have a blended family
37:55
and the family also happens to be a
37:57
business okay there’s stuff to do
37:59
it’s not just you’re members of a family
38:01
but now you we are co-laborers
38:03
you are i’m going to let you participate
38:05
in what i want
38:07
done on this planet i want you to go and
38:09
be and multiply
38:11
it’s going to take a lot of you to do
38:12
this i want you to go out and make
38:14
every place in the world like this place
38:17
like eden you know eden wasn’t the earth
38:19
eden had geography
38:20
it’s just a little piece of earth i love
38:22
that you’re hitting on this because
38:24
how many times have we heard just like
38:26
escapist like theology
38:28
like so many people think like okay
38:30
we’re the whole point of life
38:32
is just so we can die and get to heaven
38:35
and
38:35
play harps and except that is so
38:38
opposite of god’s original plan in
38:40
genesis okay let’s go back to the sons
38:42
of god thing okay so god
38:44
allots the sons of god to the nations
38:46
and they they become corrupt they become
38:48
god’s enemies all right well
38:49
well how many how many nations are there
38:52
what are the what nations are we talking
38:53
about
38:54
now in the biblical world again this is
38:56
all the geography they knew we get a
38:58
list of the nations that that god
38:59
divided at babel we get that in genesis
39:01
- there are 70 of them
39:03
all right you know then that that number
39:05
becomes significant but
39:06
eventually the goal is okay once all the
39:09
gentiles once the other nations are
39:11
brought back into the family
39:12
then eden is going to be restored this
39:14
is why revelation ends with the edenic
39:16
vision but one of the neatest lines or
39:18
some of the neatest lines are in
39:19
revelation because
39:20
you know i don’t really i don’t know how
39:21
much i get into this in supernatural but
39:23
in
39:24
in divine counsel thinking in the old
39:26
testament it had three tears there was
39:27
god
39:28
the godhead at the top and there’s the
39:29
sons of god in the middle that’s an
39:31
administrative term they get they get
39:32
the most important jobs
39:34
and at the bottom you have the
39:35
messengers the angels so you have god
39:37
the sons of god and angels
39:38
these these are all hierarchical job
39:40
descriptions okay well
39:42
isn’t it fascinating that believers
39:45
get the same label as the middle tier
39:48
the ones that are over the angels
39:49
in first corinthians 6 when paul is
39:51
trying to convince the corinthians
39:54
to stop fighting among themselves you
39:56
know over
39:57
you know what you know wealth and
39:58
resources and all this stuff he says
40:00
look people
40:01
don’t you know that you’re going to
40:03
judge angels
40:05
don’t you know that you’re going to rule
40:06
over angels you could translate to the
40:08
term either way
40:09
don’t you know that what is paul talking
40:11
about i’ll tell you what he’s talking
40:12
about he’s talking about what john says
40:14
in revelation
40:15
to him that overcomes okay talking to
40:17
believers to him that overcomes i will
40:19
put him
40:20
over the nations and he will rule the
40:22
nations with a rod of iron
40:24
jesus actually quotes a messianic psalm
40:26
about
40:27
you and me to him that overcomes i will
40:29
put them over the nations
40:31
he says it twice it’s a revelation to
40:33
revelation you know what that means
40:35
that means at the in the eschaton when
40:37
it’s all said and done
40:38
we displace the sons of god
40:42
who are currently over the nations we
40:44
displace them
40:45
we judge them and we rule over
40:48
the rest of god’s spiritual family on
40:50
this planet we
40:52
become the newly reconstituted divine
40:55
council
40:56
the divine assembly you know the the
40:58
whole cloud of witnesses thing in
40:59
hebrews 11. there’s a there’s an old
41:00
testament history to that phrase
41:02
jesus in hebrews the book of hebrews
41:04
chapters one and two
41:05
he presents us he presents believers to
41:08
the father
41:09
in quote in the congregation in the
41:12
council
41:12
okay and he is not ashamed you know when
41:15
he does that in hebrews 1 and 2. he is
41:17
not ashamed to call
41:18
us his siblings his brothers and sisters
41:22
because he was made like us and you read
41:26
hebrews 1
41:27
2 with this worldview in mind this is
41:29
our destiny what what what the bible is
41:31
really about it’s a cosmic
41:33
supernatural epic that really needs to
41:35
to be read
41:36
supernaturally so that we understand who
41:39
we are
41:40
what our status is and again we need to
41:43
be redeemed to reclaim this status we
41:45
need to
41:45
you know accept christ we need to
41:47
understand our status who we are
41:49
and then we need to understand our
41:50
destiny and this everything is going to
41:52
come
41:53
full circle in the biblical story in the
41:55
meantime we have this struggle over
41:57
us and struggle over earth because the
42:00
divine beings that are in rebellion
42:02
okay they understand you know after the
42:05
after the cross they understand what’s
42:06
going on now
42:07
and and how does this work you know in
42:09
real life how does this work how do you
42:10
move herds
42:11
how do you move masses of people it’s
42:14
about thinking
42:15
it’s about thought patterns it’s about
42:17
getting them to believe
42:18
certain things about themselves about
42:21
god
42:22
about christ about why they’re even here
42:24
it’s a moment by moment
42:26
struggle between god using invisibly god
42:30
using
42:31
his divine agents in our lives his other
42:34
other human agents in our lives
42:36
everything we do has a ripple effect
42:38
that just ripples out in so many layers
42:40
to other people you know just just how
42:43
providence just
42:44
generates you know so much influence
42:46
every little thing that we do it
42:48
actually matters
42:49
and this is what we’re designed to do
42:51
you know we’re supposed to represent god
42:53
and interact with other imagers
42:55
and ideally that’s supposed to lead us
42:58
to the truth it’s supposed to lead us
42:59
back home
43:00
it’ll lead us to christ but the other
43:02
side is doing the same thing
43:03
trying to subtly invisibly
43:06
imperceptively
43:07
influence our thinking influence well
43:09
because because as we think that is how
43:11
we will behave
43:13
and this is how you move herds this is
43:16
how you you control
43:17
people and whole populations mass is a
43:20
people
43:21
you have to control how they think about
43:24
a small set of really really important
43:26
questions
43:27
and again this is what’s going on behind
43:29
us we i think we really need as
43:31
christians to avoid the deeply flawed
43:33
idea
43:34
that oh i saw something spectacular
43:36
happen and
43:37
you know god can do what he wants you
43:39
know i don’t have any problem with that
43:40
but i saw something spectacular man god
43:42
was working that
43:43
at that god was working that day god was
43:45
really present there
43:46
hey i got news for you most of the time
43:49
god’s present you’re never going to see
43:50
it okay there’s this thing called the
43:52
unseen hand
43:53
there’s this thing called providence god
43:55
isn’t just engaged
43:57
he doesn’t just sort of care when
43:59
something big happens
44:00
okay god’s interest is unrelenting
44:04
it’s moment by moment but those who are
44:06
hostile to him in the spirit world
44:08
their interest is the same and we are
44:10
just not cognizant of it why because
44:12
we’re modern
44:13
we’re sophisticated we’re scientific we
44:16
don’t think like this anymore
44:18
i gotta ask you this this just came to
44:20
my mind i mean there’s so many thoughts
44:22
as you’re talking so i’m thinking years
44:23
of conversations
44:25
but you know where is so many christians
44:28
don’t realize that there’s
44:29
i’m i’m listening to you thinking okay
44:31
there’s a spiritual battle going on
44:33
right if they’re fighting against us
44:35
what would you say to the
44:37
to the average christian listening or
44:38
the person listening saying
44:40
well how do i overcome that stop stop
44:43
presuming
44:44
that there’s a spiritual battle only
44:46
when you see something bizarre
44:48
you are being duped okay you are being
44:50
trained
44:51
to only take the spiritual world
44:53
seriously when something strange blows
44:55
up in your face
44:56
okay or when you see or hear some
44:59
strange story
45:00
that’s a distraction okay you need to be
45:03
cognizant of
45:04
the spirit beings are intelligent beings
45:06
they just they’re you know
45:07
they’re the invisible part of all things
45:09
visible and invisible when they manifest
45:11
okay that was strange and they’re
45:13
they’re there they’re present there’s
45:14
something’s going on there
45:16
but don’t be misled into thinking that
45:18
is the only activity
45:20
that they engage in spirit beings again
45:22
the whole thing on both sides
45:24
is about how we think how we are
45:28
we are led or misled into thinking
45:31
certain thoughts that will influence
45:33
certain behaviors
45:34
now god took the step of giving us
45:37
revelation
45:38
it’s called the bible it’s called
45:39
scripture that would that would be
45:41
sort of a step ahead we have a reference
45:43
point we can
45:44
we can actually learn things you know
45:46
the other side you know you could say
45:48
well they mimic that in all sorts of
45:49
ways and you know i’ll grant that but
45:51
it’s a battle for the mind
45:52
it’s always been a battle for the mind
45:54
because as we think
45:55
as we believe certain things that will
45:58
influence how we behave
46:00
it’ll influence real simple things like
46:02
do you really believe
46:03
that this world is not your home do you
46:05
really believe that
46:06
if you really believe that that is going
46:09
to influence how you process
46:11
tragedy it’s going to influence how you
46:13
process
46:14
you know personal harm it’s going to
46:17
influence how you process
46:19
you know evil okay if you really believe
46:22
in your heart of hearts that this world
46:25
is not my home
46:26
this is not the terminal point for me
46:28
that is going to influence the way how
46:30
you handle everything and your response
46:33
in a spiritual sense to all sorts of
46:36
things
46:37
i think you know joy let’s take joy joy
46:40
is not oh i’m giddy and happy i’m
46:41
clicking my heels and you know i’m a
46:43
little
46:44
you know i’m getting a little silly here
46:46
and you know some people have the
46:47
personality that’s the way they express
46:48
it what joy really is
46:50
theological definition is it is a
46:52
theistic
46:53
optimism about life that you know
46:56
another way of putting god is in control
46:58
we’re going to trust god with this we’re
47:00
going to actually believe
47:02
that god knows what’s going on and god
47:04
will respond to it god will shepherd us
47:07
through
47:07
and you know what even if it’s still
47:09
hard this world
47:11
is not my home do we really believe
47:14
these things
47:15
that’s good well i wanna i can keep
47:17
asking you questions my typical show we
47:19
go for about 30 or 40 minutes and we’re
47:21
way over so
47:22
i try to keep it for for listeners i do
47:24
want to ask you
47:26
how do our listeners find you because
47:27
you there’s no way we could i mean we’ve
47:30
barely scratched the surface and
47:31
some of the content that i’ve seen on
47:33
your website read your book
47:35
how do our listeners find more of you
47:38
your podcast
47:39
all that stuff well the the nerve center
47:41
is
47:42
dr as in dr drmsh.com so doctor and then
47:48
my initials drmsh.com and you can
47:51
pretty much find everything i do on that
47:53
like the blog and the podcast if you
47:54
want to go directly to the podcast you
47:56
can find the naked bible podcast on
47:58
itunes
47:59
and of course you know you could just go
48:00
to nakedbiblepodcast.com
48:03
and again hopefully your listeners will
48:05
remember why we call
48:06
it that we’re just trying to give you
48:08
scripture in its own context
48:10
and and hoping that it will you’ll just
48:12
experience the rediscovery
48:14
of scripture there’s there’s just so
48:16
much there that our modern blinders
48:19
and you know prevent us from seeing it
48:21
and we get we get the bible filtered
48:22
through tradition
48:23
and again tradition is not an awful
48:25
thing but it’s not scripture it’s not
48:27
scripture there’s a lot more to see
48:29
okay so i’ve skipped several questions
48:31
but there’s one that i never skipped
48:34
i’ve never skipped it so far but the
48:36
question is if you could go back to the
48:38
younger you
48:39
what advice would you give yourself to
48:41
propel you into your future now you
48:43
nothing’s going to change
48:44
but you’re going to basically like
48:47
barney mcfly
48:48
or tom hanks going back into time to
48:51
tell yourself something what would you
48:52
say
48:53
and nothing’s gonna change no you can’t
48:55
change like
48:56
you’re still gonna go through everything
48:58
you’re gonna go through in life
49:00
but you’re just gonna you’re gonna give
49:01
yourself advice yeah that
49:03
is important because like i said earlier
49:06
all the really big decisions in my life
49:07
were more or less made for me
49:09
by providence and again i think in god’s
49:11
wisdom so that i couldn’t mess it up if
49:13
nothing would change
49:15
boy i wish i could go back you know
49:17
maybe to when i was nine
49:19
and say believe what you’re hearing here
49:21
in this little home bible study in this
49:23
little family devotional time about the
49:25
gospel i mean that would have
49:26
it would have saved me seven years i
49:28
would it could have had maybe more of a
49:31
of a christian experience as a young
49:33
person so maybe
49:34
pay attention to this believe or you
49:37
know
49:38
less generously try to pay attention to
49:41
life a little bit more
49:42
you know just you know don’t be clueless
49:44
you know everything
49:45
just the lesson that it all happens you
49:47
know for a purpose if i had to learn
49:49
that a little bit
49:50
earlier i think that could have helped
49:51
me in in certain ways
49:53
well mike i want to thank you so much
49:54
for taking the time i know you’re super
49:56
busy
49:56
and taking the time to jump on here with
49:58
us sharing your stuff
https://faithlife.com/posts/776815
Mike Heiser in Michael S. Heiser — Edited
I don’t know if this content will show up correctly here. If not, go to http://www.moreunseenrealm.com/?page_id=10. Another question I get all the time is about how John 10:34-35 undermines my view of elohim. That is, people who argue that the plural elohim of Psalm 82 are humans attempts to utilize the quotation of Psalm 82:6 by Jesus in John 10:34. I would suggest that this text has been fundamentally misunderstood by New Testament scholars who approach it with little or no background knowledge of the divine council. Their view *undermines* Jesus / John’s claim to his/Jesus’ deity in John 10. Mine doesn’t — and honors the OT / Israelite worldview context of the psalm to boot. For a full treatment of this issue, listen to the episode (#109) I devoted to it on my podcast: http://www.nakedbiblepodcast.com/naked-bible-109-john-10-gods-or-men/ Briefly, the context of Jesus’ quotation is crucial. In John 10:30 he has just told his audience that he and the Father were one. Jesus isn’t going to follow that statement by essentially saying “I get to call myself God because you mere mortals do it too by virtue of Psalm 82.” That approach undermines John’s presentation in this chapter of the deity of Jesus, yet this is precisely the trajectory one finds of all the published material on John 10:34 and its use of Psalm 82. This backdrop is important for interpreting the significance of Jesus’ quotation of Psalm 82:6 in John 10:34-35. I have never come across the view I have of this issue in print, and so it seems best to give the full context of Jesus’ quotation in order to make my thoughts clear (John 10:22-42): 22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said to him, “How long are you going to make us doubt? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me. 26 But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all; and no one is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and my Father are one.” 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works have I shown you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, saying, “For a good work we would not stone you; but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, make yourself God.” The quotation of Psalm 82:6 follows: 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law: ‘I said, you are gods?’ 35 If he [God] called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 do you say of him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme!’ because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though you don’t believe me, believe the works: that you may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.” 39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand, 40 And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode. 41 And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true. 42 And many believed on him there. Here is what we can glean without interpretive disagreement: Jesus’ prefaced his quotation by asserting that he and the Father were one (10:30). This claim was regarded as blasphemy in that Jesus was making himself out to be God (10:33). In defense of his assertion, Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6. That is, to establish his claim to be God, Jesus went to Psalm 82:6. He follows the quotation with the statement that the Father was in him, and he was in the Father. The consensus view of this quotation is that Jesus was endorsing the human אלהים view and thereby arguing, “I have every right to call myself divine—you guys can do it as well on the basis of Psalm 82:6.” The problem, of course, is that this amounts to Jesus saying “you mere mortals can call yourself gods, so I can, too.” If this is what John intends to communicate to go along with verse 30 to put forth the idea of Jesus’ deity, it’s an inept strategy. I propose that Jesus knew the elohim of Psalm 82 were not human, and that Jesus was in fact asserting his own unique ontological oneness with the Father.[1] The human elohim view derives from two assumptions brought to the text: (1) that it is required by the assumed impossibility of there being other elohim because of Judeo-Christian monotheism; and (2) that the phrase “to whom the word of God came” refers to the Jews who received the law at Sinai (i.e., the Pharisees’ forefathers). I would suggest that what first needs to be done is to come to terms with what is meant by “the word of God” and who it is that receives that word in Psalm 82:6-7: I said, ‘You are gods (elohim ), even sons of the Most High (beney-‘elyon), all of you; nevertheless, like humans you will die, and fall like any prince.’ The speaker (“I”) in the passage is the God of Israel, the God who is standing in the council in 82:1 among the elohim . God announces that the elohim of the council are his sons, but because of their corruption (vv. 2-5), they will lose their immortality. I believe that Jesus was referring to this utterance itself when he quoted the psalm, not the Jewish nation receiving the law at Sinai or the revelation that would become the Old Testament. To illustrate the difference in the views: Common Interpretation /Jesus’ strategy assumes elohim are HUMAN: The “word of God that came” = revelation from God at Sinai, or the entire OT “to whom the word of God came” = the Jews at Sinai, or the Jews generally. Result = the Jews are the “sons of the Most High” and elohim— so Jesus can call himself an elohim as well, since he’s a Jew, too. My view / Jesus’ strategy assumes elohim are DIVINE: The “word of God that came” = the utterance itself in Psalm 82:6 – the pronouncement from God“to whom the word of God came” = the elohim of the divine council in 82:1Result = The Jews are not elohim, and Jesus reminds his enemies that their Scriptures say there are other elohim who are divine sons—and this on the heels of declaring himself one with the Father (John 10:30) puts him in the position of not only claiming divinity as a son of the Most High, but by claiming to be above the sons of God since he is one with the Father. In other words, Jesus appeals to sons of God who are MORE THAN HUMAN as his prooftext for defending his claim that, by calling himself the son of God he is more than a man (and that’s very obviously the way the Jews took what he said). But by ALSO saying he was equal with the father (John 10:30) and that the Father was “in him” (see my discussion of the Name theology in Exod 23:20-23 for the backdrop to that phrase) and he was in the Father, he goes beyond claiming to be more than a man on equal par to the elohim of the divine council. He casts himself as Lord of the council — God himself. As far as the consensus view, nowhere in Psalm 82 do we have any hint of the Mosaic Law, Sinai, a Jewish nation, or the canonical revelation given to the Jews. Every element in the commonly held view must be inserted into the passage. My view is that Jesus is quoting Psalm 82:6 to put forth the idea that he was more than human. He reminds his Jewish audience that there were in fact other elohim besides the God of Israel, and those elohim were God’s sons. Because he calls himself the son of God and has in fact just claimed to be one with Yahweh, not only puts himself in the class of the sons of the Most High of Psalm 82:6—divine elohim—but implies that he is Lord of the council. This particular son of the Most High is one with the Father. The Jewish authorities got the message, too—they charged him with blasphemy. Now ask yourself, why would they do that if all Jesus was saying was “you mortal Jews get to call yourselves sons of God, and elohim, so I can, too.” That makes no sense at all. Again, for more. please listen to the podcast episode. http://www.nakedbiblepodcast.com/naked-bible-109-john-10-gods-or-men/
+++
Rosettasister's Weblog 
June 23, 2021 at 11:13 am
i bet jesus knew this passage
i bet paul knew it i bet the disciples knew it
there must be a way to understand this and still have a trinity still have the uniqueness of the god of israel you know the god of the bible
there must be a way that this makes sense
Michael S. Heiser: Interpreting the significance of Jesus’ quotation of Psalm 82:6 in John 10:34-35
#unido @DRMSHPhD