Oh Lori Radio

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11 Responses to “Oh Lori Radio”

  1. rosettasister Says:

  2. rosettasister Says:

    129:04
    [Music]
    129:19
    welcome back fade to black i am your
    129:21
    host jimmy church tonight rick dodie is
    129:22
    with us
    129:26
    i’ll tell you something funny uh i’ll
    129:28
    get to rick in a second
    129:30
    so the
    129:34
    the strap buttons
    129:37
    this is uh this is a limited edition
    129:40
    jackson randy rhodes very nice
    129:43
    it’s got a uh roasted maple neck very
    129:46
    cool guitar
    129:47
    but the strap buttons are extra large
    129:51
    they’re huge
    129:52
    and
    129:54
    you have to
    129:58
    so during the break
    130:00
    you know i’ve got a a box full of fender
    130:02
    straps went to put a a strap i can’t put
    130:05
    it on and i was trying to get it on
    130:07
    during the break and i was struggling
    130:10
    that’s why i was late getting back i
    130:12
    don’t know rick i don’t know if you saw
    130:13
    me trying to put that strap button uh uh
    130:16
    on that guitar but i tried to do it in
    130:18
    the three minutes during the commercial
    130:20
    break and then i had a choice do i take
    130:22
    out uh a box knife
    130:25
    right an x-acto knife and do i cut the
    130:28
    strap button
    130:30
    and then cut my thumb and then i’m
    130:33
    bleeding all over the radio studio
    130:36
    you know or do i just put the guitar
    130:38
    down
    130:38
    and not try to do this in three minutes
    130:40
    and so i think rick was going what is
    130:44
    church doing
    130:45
    what is what’s going on there
    130:48
    but uh so anyway that’s uh that’s what
    130:50
    was going on during the break um okay so
    130:53
    back to this uh the sighting out of
    130:55
    tonopah uh what did you see
    130:58
    uh
    130:58
    well we saw
    131:00
    a number of amazing things that we
    131:02
    probably we we couldn’t explain what
    131:04
    they were some things we could explain
    131:06
    as uh drones probably classified drone
    131:09
    projects uh they were flying to b21 the
    131:12
    new bomber out there the the prototype
    131:14
    they haven’t actually put the one into
    131:17
    production yet but uh and and many other
    131:20
    things but while we were out there uh
    131:22
    we’re again about a mile and a half from
    131:24
    the base we’re on blm property
    131:27
    so we’re not near the military
    131:30
    but one afternoon it was a
    131:33
    one of the few
    131:34
    stormy afternoons in nevada
    131:36
    um
    131:38
    two government vehicles drove up to our
    131:40
    motorhome we had a motor and we had a
    131:42
    four-wheel drive motorhome which i know
    131:44
    you want to buy one of those i do i do
    131:49
    it’s happening actually it’s happening
    131:51
    rick oh is it yeah yeah it’s happening
    131:55
    uh anyways we uh
    131:57
    they came up and these men are in uh
    131:59
    jumpsuits
    132:01
    uh they they don’t have any uh signia
    132:05
    uh they were very very polite
    132:08
    they wanted to know what we were doing
    132:09
    and um
    132:11
    what one of the producers was actually
    132:13
    one that went out there and started
    132:14
    talking to him and then he turned around
    132:16
    and signaled to me to come over
    132:18
    and uh he’s and they said uh well we’re
    132:21
    just curious what you’re doing out here
    132:24
    uh you’re on blm land so we can’t we’re
    132:27
    we’re just curious what you’re doing and
    132:29
    the producer told him he flew open he
    132:32
    just came out and said we’re filming
    132:34
    everything that we’re seeing out there
    132:36
    and they said you may have a problem
    132:40
    and uh we said well what are we doing
    132:43
    then i then i came on to it
    132:45
    i said what are we doing wrong he said
    132:47
    well
    132:48
    [Music]
    132:49
    you guys are filming
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    classified
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    projects i said
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    but
    132:54
    the law says
    132:56
    title 50 united states code says
    132:59
    you got to film it on a military
    133:02
    installation we’re not out of military
    133:04
    education we’re in fact we’re a mile and
    133:06
    a half almost two miles off it
    133:08
    you don’t control the skies if it was on
    133:11
    the ground
    133:12
    i don’t know that we would do it we if
    133:14
    we saw it parked on the ground we
    133:16
    probably wouldn’t film it but in the sky
    133:18
    what he said well that’s that’s the gray
    133:21
    area he said we’ll get back with you on
    133:23
    that
    133:24
    i’m asking for some identification i
    133:26
    said you do you have an id or
    133:29
    who are you he said we’re the government
    133:32
    i said we work for osi
    133:34
    you work for dia are you fbi he said
    133:38
    now you’re asking too many questions and
    133:40
    they got in their vehicle and drove away
    133:42
    well
    133:44
    unbeknownst to them
    133:46
    we filmed that all we filmed the entire
    133:49
    contact with these guys
    133:51
    and what happened what they did and we
    133:53
    found out
    133:55
    they jammed us with radio signals
    133:58
    so it didn’t affect the cameras anything
    134:01
    but our two-way communications from one
    134:03
    motorhome and we had another one
    134:06
    over near silver bowl which is about 40
    134:08
    miles away we had another one down near
    134:11
    goldfield which is we couldn’t talk to
    134:13
    our people
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    because of the radio interference
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    and so
    134:18
    um we
    134:20
    when we were we were filming this
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    uh doing this project
    134:24
    when coveted
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    so we had to stop and we so it’s been
    134:29
    delayed
    134:30
    coming out and i can’t i can’t speak
    134:32
    about anything more than that but it’s
    134:34
    going to be a quite a documentary yeah
    134:36
    right on right on uh
    134:39
    i had uh an experience yesterday
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    with a lady in
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    uh a jumpsuit
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    so
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    uh i’m walking through the airport
    134:50
    terminal just landed and uh and i’m
    134:52
    walking through and i see this lady
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    catches my eye
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    she’s wearing a green
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    uh
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    jumpsuit
    135:02
    uh
    135:03
    can’t uh not uh uh what’s the word uh uh
    135:08
    fatigue green
    135:09
    right not camo just one color
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    but no
    135:14
    insignias or anything on it
    135:17
    right just a straight green jumpsuit and
    135:19
    i thought it was pretty fashion forward
    135:22
    i thought okay it’s kind of a weird
    135:23
    thing to wear
    135:25
    but anyway so then but i was looking at
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    her and then behind her
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    is a german shepherd
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    and and she’s got this german shepherd
    135:35
    and i went oh okay now this is really
    135:37
    interesting but there was nothing
    135:39
    uh no no service dog or anything uh
    135:43
    you know no labeling on the dog
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    but it’s obviously it’s like a drug dog
    135:47
    or a bomb sniffing dog anyway so i’m
    135:50
    walking and this dog just comes straight
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    up to me
    135:54
    sniffs and this and she goes and went
    135:57
    like this to say something to me the dog
    136:00
    sits down
    136:01
    and is watching and and and she goes and
    136:05
    i just
    136:06
    whoop
    136:07
    i just walked man i i almost stopped
    136:10
    because she was stopping me
    136:13
    and i kept going and i did i looked over
    136:15
    my shoulder
    136:17
    dog is still sitting there and she’s
    136:19
    looking at me but i kept going i was
    136:21
    close to the exit
    136:22
    and uh but she had no nothing there was
    136:25
    nothing no name not nothing just a clean
    136:29
    uh
    136:30
    green jumpsuit i thought that that was
    136:32
    really really interesting
    136:34
    i don’t know what that dog smelled it
    136:35
    must have been my
    136:36
    axe body spray
    136:38
    that’s what i’m thinking i think it was
    136:40
    my axe body spray okay so back to um
    136:44
    uh back to the book
    136:46
    and the possibility of uh this being
    136:49
    disinformation
    136:50
    um i keep going back to
    136:52
    one point here that i think needs to be
    136:56
    the obvious one
    136:58
    public perception is everything the way
    137:00
    that the public is perceiving this book
    137:02
    right now
    137:03
    that is
    137:05
    the statement
    137:07
    i haven’t read the book but that’s the
    137:08
    statement and that’s everything that i
    137:10
    am talking about tonight
    137:12
    and if the public is perceiving it that
    137:15
    way
    137:17
    then is the disinformation campaign
    137:20
    if that’s what it is is it doing its job
    137:23
    is that the goal
    137:25
    public
    137:26
    perception yeah absolutely that’s the
    137:29
    goal
    137:30
    is uh
    137:32
    disinforming
    137:33
    some some entity some some segment of of
    137:37
    society or some uh you know most
    137:41
    most people who
    137:42
    don’t know or or
    137:44
    don’t have anything to do with ufos
    137:47
    don’t believe in them i mean there’s a
    137:48
    lot of there’s a segment of society
    137:50
    about you know 35 37 percent that just
    137:53
    don’t believe regardless if one landed
    137:55
    they wouldn’t still believe in it uh it
    137:57
    probably is not going to affect them
    137:59
    although they may say well see i told
    138:01
    you so
    138:02
    but the segment they’re they’re
    138:04
    targeting the ufo community if in fact
    138:07
    and i don’t know for a fact it is but if
    138:09
    in fact this is a disinformation
    138:11
    campaign they’re targeting the ufo
    138:14
    community they want to change the
    138:16
    perception of the ufo community and the
    138:18
    way to do that
    138:20
    is to disinform them provide
    138:22
    disinformation confusing them
    138:25
    why why the interest in in the ufo
    138:29
    community
    138:30
    i remember seeing uh oh the film mirage
    138:34
    men
    138:35
    and uh whatever
    138:37
    you know
    138:38
    the film isn’t the point but what is the
    138:40
    point
    138:42
    is
    138:43
    uh there’s a scene in there of you
    138:46
    sitting in the back of the audience
    138:48
    right you’re at the ufo conference
    138:51
    sitting in the back as an attendee
    138:53
    why the interest in the ufo community uh
    138:58
    by not only the government specifically
    139:01
    uh different agencies and and and the
    139:03
    air force and the navy
    139:07
    they want to keep track of what the ufo
    139:10
    community knows
    139:12
    uh i’ve been to uh
    139:14
    i don’t know how many over 20
    139:17
    but probably
    139:18
    close to 30 ufo conventions
    139:21
    and
    139:22
    i find
    139:23
    uh at least three if not more
    139:27
    uh this
    139:28
    this year’s ufo convention
    139:31
    uh we
    139:33
    myself and this other person
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    immediately detected one uh of the uh of
    139:39
    uh
    139:40
    of the intelligence officer we
    139:41
    approached him i taught i approached him
    139:43
    talk to him he was open yeah i am i
    139:46
    i’m stationed up at nellis air force
    139:49
    base i work in an air force intelligence
    139:53
    but then
    139:54
    then he says but i’m here as a private
    139:56
    citizen
    139:58
    and i said oh yeah right you’re a
    140:00
    private citizen i said what are you
    140:02
    putting into that notebook
    140:03
    he just smiled at me and he wouldn’t
    140:05
    tell me he wouldn’t say anything other
    140:07
    than that
    140:08
    he said is there a reason i mean i can’t
    140:10
    be no no i mean never it’s open to the
    140:12
    public
    140:14
    and so that’s the one we we knew of
    140:16
    there were two other people at the two
    140:18
    others uh male and female that we
    140:20
    weren’t sure about
    140:22
    uh and we i approached one of them and
    140:25
    eric you know eric he approached another
    140:27
    one uh in conversation but there
    140:30
    wouldn’t wasn’t any uh identity uh they
    140:33
    wouldn’t identify themselves two years
    140:35
    ago though
    140:36
    there were three of them in uniform
    140:39
    i mean they came in air force uniforms
    140:41
    they came from uh nellis i don’t know
    140:44
    two was from nellis one was from uh hill
    140:47
    air force base but they came in uniform
    140:49
    they’re officers i mean
    140:51
    wide open and they fully admitted that
    140:54
    they were there to uh gather in
    141:00
    full community what these speakers were
    141:03
    going to present i mean they were open
    141:04
    to it now what is there to gather
    141:07
    information yeah and what is it
    141:09
    that they want to find out that we know
    141:13
    i mean is it
    141:15
    is it et is it types of craft is it
    141:18
    contact
    141:19
    uh
    141:20
    is it something else that could be
    141:22
    misconstrued
    141:24
    uh as as ufos but could be you know
    141:27
    foreign adversarial you know typing
    141:30
    uh you know confused as ufo sightings i
    141:32
    mean what is it that they want to
    141:35
    to find out that we know
    141:37
    all of the above they want to find out
    141:40
    everything that we know
    141:42
    all the speakers presentations what what
    141:45
    they’re going to present whether they’re
    141:47
    going to show pictures of things uh
    141:50
    whether they’re going to describe
    141:51
    something that they don’t know about
    141:53
    that that they have to keep up with and
    141:56
    so that’s what they’re doing there and
    141:58
    they’re secretly recording although
    141:59
    they’re not supposed to i’m sure they’re
    142:01
    secretly recording they’re probably
    142:03
    taking pictures i know they’re not
    142:05
    supposed to but there’s probably have
    142:07
    some ways of doing that so yeah they
    142:09
    have they have an agenda they have a
    142:11
    mission and they’re trying to find out
    142:14
    what we
    142:15
    within the ufo community knows and what
    142:18
    is being presented at these uh these ufo
    142:21
    conventions
    142:22
    and
    142:23
    they’re going to go back and write
    142:24
    intelligence report
    142:26
    i mean i did it i mean i wrote
    142:27
    intelligence boards and you and it goes
    142:30
    to a file
    142:31
    someplace i mean
    142:33
    number of different places it goes to
    142:35
    copies and so now they know
    142:38
    they have something in a database about
    142:40
    what was presented at this particular
    142:42
    ufo convention on this particular date
    142:45
    now uh you
    142:47
    uh
    142:48
    were
    142:49
    a handler i don’t know if you were
    142:51
    specifically a creator
    142:54
    or an author
    142:55
    of uh of documents that were spread in
    142:58
    the ufo community but you were certainly
    143:01
    a handler
    143:02
    of documents that were used for
    143:05
    disinformation
    143:06
    does that continue today
    143:08
    are documents continuing to be created
    143:12
    and distributed
    143:13
    into the ufo community
    143:17
    oh yes i’m sure well i can give you one
    143:19
    instance um
    143:21
    in in 2006
    143:23
    uh i was at the ufo convention at
    143:25
    loughlin
    143:27
    it was the year that the circle story
    143:29
    came out
    143:31
    there was a a man who uh was a dia
    143:35
    defense intelligence agency employee
    143:37
    readily admitted it had the credentials
    143:40
    showed everybody he didn’t he didn’t
    143:41
    hide anything he was open with
    143:43
    everything
    143:44
    he um
    143:46
    he presented some a report uh was dated
    143:50
    in 1987
    143:52
    about uh the ufo phenomena
    143:55
    it was a
    143:56
    uh i don’t remember how many pages it
    143:58
    was a really thick maybe 100 probably
    144:01
    over 100 pages
    144:04
    i was in the back of the room
    144:06
    sitting down
    144:08
    and
    144:09
    talking to this guy with other people
    144:11
    there at the table
    144:12
    and he gave he only had one copy well i
    144:16
    started to look through it you know i
    144:18
    started reading things through it
    144:20
    immediately i detected to be
    144:22
    disinformation
    144:24
    because some of the dates and things he
    144:27
    had in this 1987 document and we’re at
    144:30
    2006 now some of the
    144:33
    the information in there
    144:34
    i mean i was an intelligence officer
    144:36
    during that time period
    144:38
    some of the things he had an entire
    144:41
    uh chapter devoted to the cowardly
    144:43
    canyon incident
    144:45
    well i was investigating this he didn’t
    144:48
    know me from adam at the time
    144:50
    um
    144:51
    i immediately read this and found
    144:54
    nothing in there was factual
    144:57
    so i didn’t say anything to him right
    145:00
    then
    145:01
    but some of the other people at the
    145:02
    table read it looked at it bill ryan
    145:05
    some of the other people uh
    145:07
    joel yeager and some of the other and
    145:10
    they looked through it and they were
    145:11
    fascinated by oh my god this guy’s
    145:13
    giving out classified information
    145:16
    and then privately i told him everything
    145:18
    that he’s given there is baloney
    145:21
    and the word
    145:22
    traveled
    145:23
    around the ufo
    145:25
    convention there that this guy was
    145:27
    trying to feed people a disinformation
    145:30
    and that document with disinformation i
    145:32
    know that was a factual incident that
    145:35
    happened
    145:36
    now are they doing it again other places
    145:38
    uh probably
    145:40
    try
    145:41
    the easiest way
    145:42
    to disinform somebody is either with
    145:46
    uh pictures
    145:47
    a video
    145:49
    or a document that looks to be factual
    145:52
    now the mj12 documents go back to that i
    145:55
    didn’t have anything to do with the mj
    145:57
    12 documents but information contained
    146:00
    in there was factual some of it was
    146:03
    and then some of it wasn’t
    146:04
    factual um
    146:06
    jamie shandera bill moore and many other
    146:09
    people
    146:10
    uh were involved in that just how where
    146:13
    that came from i mean i had to go
    146:15
    through two investigations to declare my
    146:17
    name but
    146:19
    but yes the the the answer your question
    146:22
    yes the government will
    146:24
    provide
    146:25
    uh false documents to disinform people
    146:30
    i just got a very interesting text
    146:34
    hmm
    146:36
    okay
    146:38
    uh
    146:39
    oh man
    146:42
    uh okay all right i just got just
    146:48
    uh maybe
    146:51
    you know what i think they went off at
    146:52
    the same time i heard yours too
    146:55
    um is it about a paragraph
    146:59
    yeah
    147:00
    does it look like does it look like this
    147:06
    yep
    147:07
    okay
    147:08
    all right
    147:12
    yeah man
    147:14
    these listening uh they are listening
    147:17
    these listening
    147:19
    well um i want to thank you uh rick uh
    147:22
    for coming on tonight being so candid
    147:24
    about all of this
    147:26
    um i i can’t state it any more clearly
    147:30
    that uh i need to read the book
    147:33
    i need to look through this smoke
    147:35
    i’m not going to comment on the book
    147:37
    after that i will use it as a tool
    147:40
    uh to ask the right questions i was uh
    147:45
    on the phone earlier today
    147:47
    uh with somebody in this community
    147:50
    and they were asking me what i would do
    147:53
    about it and i said you know what the
    147:55
    thing is and this is what this person
    147:57
    said um jimmy you’re you’re right in the
    148:00
    middle with all of these players i said
    148:02
    well exactly i’m not here to
    148:05
    uh to be judge your jury
    148:07
    um but i do know who’s speaking to me
    148:11
    and and i’m i’m getting too many varied
    148:16
    uh
    148:16
    the radio signals are are scrambled uh
    148:20
    you know and so in the end i’ll be able
    148:22
    to to to use some discernment here and
    148:25
    see where the facts are and and what is
    148:28
    consistent and i’ll be able to ask the
    148:30
    the right questions and get the right
    148:32
    answers uh moving forward but i i
    148:35
    anticipate the reading of this book and
    148:38
    as soon as i get it finished uh i’ll
    148:40
    respond to the person that just sent me
    148:42
    this text
    148:44
    uh who said jimmy just read the book and
    148:46
    then
    148:47
    and that actually that’s how it started
    148:50
    i i didn’t read uh the full text but i
    148:53
    want to do the same thing with you rick
    148:55
    you finished the book and then uh let’s
    148:58
    circle back and and and take this a step
    149:00
    further
    149:01
    okay yeah definitely all the best all
    149:04
    the best and so uh i’ve got about a
    149:06
    minute left uh before uh we uh take our
    149:09
    break uh what’s going on with you in
    149:12
    2022
    149:14
    um and do you anticipate
    149:17
    uh the movement ahead in the disclosure
    149:20
    question in 2022
    149:23
    oh absolutely i think we’ll be in
    149:25
    another
    149:26
    realm of of uh disclosures
    149:29
    i think more people will open up i know
    149:33
    two people right now within dia who have
    149:36
    have retired or either have retired or
    149:39
    will retire
    149:40
    that’s going to come forth uh regardless
    149:43
    of their uh nda they’re going to come
    149:45
    forth uh and one of them i mentioned uh
    149:49
    once before
    149:51
    when
    149:52
    when this utep stuff came out
    149:55
    he said well they didn’t come to my desk
    149:57
    and ask me because i have a file
    149:59
    cabinets behind me full of ufo
    150:01
    information so
    150:03
    uh it’s going to be interesting uh when
    150:05
    these people come out of the of the
    150:07
    woodwork so to speak and um and and
    150:10
    present their side of it yeah
    150:12
    it’s a very interesting yeah
    150:14
    things have come too far and i don’t
    150:16
    want uh this community to think that
    150:19
    uh you know we made all of this progress
    150:21
    and now it’s going in another direction
    150:23
    no we’ve got to keep our foot on the gas
    150:25
    and that’s what we do with programs like
    150:27
    this and guests like yourself thank you
    150:30
    so much rick be safe out there ah
    150:32
    another one just came in
    150:36
    yes that mine just lit up too so okay
    150:38
    all right i will talk to you so i gotta
    150:41
    get to these texts now during the break
    150:43
    rick be safe out there my friend thank
    150:45
    you so much okay thanks jimmy

  3. rosettasister Says:

    96:48
    welcome back fade to black i am your
    96:50
    host jimmy church
    96:51
    tonight rick dodie is here when i need
    96:54
    information
    96:55
    about disinformation
    96:57
    i go to the source go to rick dodi
    97:00
    yeah man i do have them on speed dial
    97:04
    and uh now
    97:06
    here’s the other interesting twist
    97:10
    um
    97:14
    you have all of this movement uh going
    97:17
    forward and you have uh
    97:21
    lou
    97:23
    being
    97:24
    uh
    97:25
    cast into the limelight very very
    97:28
    quickly
    97:29
    um he’s been on this show multiple times
    97:31
    i’ve got a movie that is about to
    97:33
    release
    97:34
    uh in a couple of weeks uh he is in that
    97:38
    movie
    97:39
    um
    97:40
    and this is a big picture this is a big
    97:42
    film uh that is launching i’ve got two
    97:44
    films launching next month
    97:47
    and and
    97:49
    this
    97:50
    um
    97:51
    establishment of of lou being put out
    97:55
    there into the public because before his
    97:57
    life was black
    97:59
    right he was
    98:00
    invisible and now he and his family have
    98:04
    been thrust out
    98:06
    uh into the limelight and and a part of
    98:10
    this community and the movement forward
    98:13
    and then this
    98:14
    happens and he’s got he’s facing this
    98:18
    he’s already been dealing with it with
    98:20
    the department of defense
    98:22
    and and now
    98:24
    this
    98:25
    is this a clever way to
    98:28
    dismantle what is going on with uh the
    98:32
    senate intelligence committee
    98:34
    the uap task force the new budget that
    98:37
    has been submitted
    98:38
    and and then this happens and this
    98:41
    forces the senate intelligence committee
    98:43
    to take another look at at lou
    98:47
    and atip and and the progress moving
    98:50
    forward
    98:52
    yeah it is the government could uh
    98:55
    could have some kind of a plan to uh
    98:58
    discredit
    99:00
    lou
    99:01
    and and throw him under the bus
    99:04
    and
    99:06
    to make them
    99:08
    to to
    99:09
    proceed with some other project would be
    99:12
    difficult for us to understand
    99:14
    everything the government’s doing
    99:15
    believe me nobody can understand what
    99:17
    the government’s doing there’s so many
    99:19
    uh wheels and and things that are going
    99:21
    occurring within the government you know
    99:23
    we couldn’t possibly
    99:25
    stop and figure out what they’re doing
    99:26
    but they must have some sort of a plan
    99:30
    to discredit because they’re
    99:32
    discrediting uh they discredited
    99:34
    lou
    99:36
    but
    99:37
    the thing i find very troubling on that
    99:40
    aspect is
    99:43
    a lot of what lou said is in public in
    99:46
    the public
    99:47
    forum i mean we can go in and check some
    99:49
    of this stuff and we find what lou said
    99:52
    and what he’s done is truthful
    99:55
    other people are saying the same thing
    99:56
    chris mullin and and now the
    99:58
    government’s saying no no no no it’s not
    100:00
    that way you know he didn’t he wasn’t in
    100:03
    here he didn’t do this he didn’t do that
    100:06
    and so um
    100:08
    it it’s troubling to me to try to
    100:10
    understand why the pentagon spokesman
    100:13
    came out and and said what they said
    100:15
    about lou now there may be some other
    100:18
    project that they’re working on
    100:20
    and there was a reason for that and i we
    100:22
    just don’t know
    100:24
    and and how does uh
    100:26
    uh the ufo community something that
    100:29
    you’ve been
    100:30
    not only a part of been analyzing
    100:33
    how does the ufo community digest this
    100:38
    you know how does the ufo community deal
    100:41
    with another
    100:42
    uh potentially huge setback if
    100:46
    the book is saying these things i’m
    100:49
    saying if right now it’s allegedly i
    100:51
    have not read the book
    100:53
    but how does the ufo community
    100:55
    uh deal with this
    100:58
    well
    100:59
    within the ufo community and i’ve been
    101:02
    i’ve been in there either on the outside
    101:04
    looking in or now i’m trying to get in
    101:07
    i think i made a lot of friends
    101:09
    at a lot of ufo conventions uh
    101:12
    uh over the over the years uh the most
    101:15
    recent one
    101:16
    where i was there with you um i think i
    101:18
    met a lot of friends i mean i was i was
    101:21
    uh
    101:23
    it was they were more friendly to me
    101:26
    uh
    101:27
    last year than than ever or this year
    101:29
    than ever before
    101:30
    and so i i have a good feeling and i
    101:33
    have a lot of friends within the ufo
    101:35
    community i mean i mean i’m i’m reading
    101:37
    i’m looking at what they’re sending me
    101:39
    now a lot of friends
    101:41
    and
    101:42
    um
    101:43
    the ufo communities is is set up in
    101:47
    open-minded people i mean it’s a lot of
    101:50
    people within the ufo community is
    101:52
    open-minded they’ll look and they’ll
    101:54
    analyze and they’ll look at things that
    101:56
    are occurring and they want to believe
    101:58
    it so bad they really really want to
    101:59
    believe it so they’ll believe it and
    102:02
    then something comes along like this
    102:04
    that throws this
    102:05
    throw something in their face
    102:07
    and now they’re saying oh my god i i was
    102:10
    so involved in this and now it turns me
    102:13
    off
    102:14
    so those people it’s going to turn off
    102:17
    other people within the ufo community
    102:19
    die hards
    102:20
    they’re going to believe regardless of
    102:22
    what happens they’re going to believe or
    102:24
    find a way to fit this book into with
    102:27
    their beliefs
    102:28
    and then there’s the other small section
    102:31
    within the ufo community there are
    102:33
    skeptics i mean there’s a lot of
    102:35
    skeptics in the ufo community they come
    102:38
    and it’s not they’re not the field class
    102:40
    type of skeptics they’re the skeptics
    102:43
    that you gotta show me something you
    102:45
    gotta show me
    102:46
    and so when you show them a wow they’re
    102:48
    all excited about it
    102:50
    and then what happens
    102:52
    this book comes out
    102:54
    throws a wrench into it ah i was
    102:57
    believing this and now i don’t know what
    102:59
    to believe
    103:00
    they’re still skeptics
    103:02
    they’re still gonna say the same thing
    103:04
    uh you know i don’t know what to say i
    103:06
    don’t i don’t know if if there’s some
    103:08
    entity within the ufo community or some
    103:11
    entity somewhere else is trying to
    103:14
    disinform us
    103:15
    and and the answer to that is i mean
    103:18
    people from the inside i can look i can
    103:20
    look at this and say it’s a government’s
    103:22
    trying to disinform you it’s not
    103:24
    necessarily ufo community there may be
    103:27
    parts of this
    103:29
    in
    103:30
    this book that is absolutely factual
    103:34
    in relationship to some some
    103:36
    project uh so
    103:39
    you know again i didn’t read the whole
    103:41
    book yet i will i have it right here i’m
    103:44
    i’m gonna read it i’ve been
    103:46
    a bit busy doing what you’re doing and
    103:48
    i’m writing scripts and things um
    103:51
    but um
    103:53
    you know i i think it’s gonna put a
    103:54
    monkey wrench in the ufo community now
    103:57
    uh
    103:59
    this is what this smells like
    104:03
    and you can laugh if you want
    104:06
    this this feels like we’ve got to build
    104:08
    more william moore situation
    104:12
    and and if the the parallels and the
    104:15
    comparisons to it
    104:17
    are are many for me but
    104:20
    the one thing
    104:23
    that we have to recognize here
    104:25
    is and you were there when
    104:28
    when bill did his thing
    104:30
    at the mufon symposium in in las vegas
    104:35
    there were
    104:37
    nobody jumped off of any buildings
    104:39
    but it was close
    104:42
    bill moore’s importance at that point
    104:45
    going into 1989
    104:47
    in the ufo community and in disclosure
    104:51
    and documents and things and sensational
    104:55
    he was
    104:56
    the guy he brought us roswell he was the
    104:59
    guy
    105:00
    and then everybody got the rug pulled
    105:02
    out from underneath them
    105:04
    and that’s what i’m talking about here
    105:07
    where this could be a situation where
    105:10
    the ufo community
    105:12
    is going to be
    105:14
    uh uh gobsmacked
    105:20
    that’s that’s that’s true i i i agree uh
    105:24
    it could very well be i think the
    105:26
    the bill moore um
    105:29
    incident in 1980 i was there i mean i
    105:32
    was
    105:32
    not far from him when he was speaking i
    105:34
    had no idea what he was going to say he
    105:36
    don’t all he told me was going to be a
    105:38
    surprise and it certainly was a surprise
    105:42
    um
    105:42
    and he was um
    105:44
    you know it was
    105:46
    he was hated immediately i mean it’d be
    105:48
    he had to be escorted out of there and
    105:50
    uh
    105:51
    i don’t know that this will be as
    105:53
    dramatic
    105:55
    as that but it could very well be it’s
    105:58
    depending on
    105:59
    uh again i have to read the book to make
    106:01
    these opinions but based on what i see
    106:04
    in social media
    106:06
    and what i’ve i’ve i’ve seen and what
    106:09
    i’ve read
    106:10
    so far about three chapters and bits and
    106:12
    pieces of the other other some other
    106:14
    chapters um it could be could be it’s
    106:17
    depending on what
    106:19
    this is gonna be a bestseller number one
    106:21
    they’re gonna be a lot of people gonna
    106:22
    buy this
    106:23
    but it’s gonna depend on how they how
    106:26
    they take it how they interpret it i
    106:28
    mean everybody has their own perception
    106:30
    of what they read so and what they’ve
    106:32
    already believed in their beliefs
    106:35
    and and what what what uh will will be a
    106:39
    trigger uh to change their beliefs one
    106:41
    way or the other now uh i’m not going to
    106:44
    suggest anything here but i will say
    106:47
    that
    106:48
    um when we’re talking about
    106:50
    disinformation and certainly we’re all
    106:52
    familiar with the last
    106:54
    uh four years since december of 2017
    106:58
    uh what we went through as a community
    107:01
    if this book is doing these things
    107:06
    is
    107:07
    the information that is being published
    107:09
    in the book if it is
    107:11
    playing out this way
    107:13
    is that
    107:15
    is there a possibility that this
    107:17
    information
    107:19
    was
    107:20
    was given to the writers of this book
    107:23
    you know and i don’t want to suggest
    107:24
    anything but
    107:25
    if it’s not true then it’s
    107:28
    disinformation
    107:29
    if it’s published in the book a certain
    107:31
    way
    107:32
    and it’s it’s not true
    107:35
    how do we how do we
    107:38
    how do we accept this right
    107:40
    well
    107:41
    i know george
    107:43
    uh he’s a great investigative journalist
    107:45
    a great a great investigator
    107:48
    uh he has a vast amount of knowledge
    107:52
    about the subject of ufos
    107:54
    uh he’s been dealing in in the
    107:56
    investigation of dual ufos back
    107:59
    in the uh
    108:01
    since the 80s
    108:02
    i sat in a hotel room with him
    108:04
    uh listening talking to him about things
    108:08
    uh that i’m not gonna talk about now
    108:10
    that
    108:12
    he educated me on a few things
    108:14
    he told me some things
    108:16
    that
    108:17
    were that he knew about that he won’t he
    108:19
    won’t discuss
    108:21
    and the reason he won’t discuss it is
    108:23
    because he can’t verify
    108:25
    he said people told me this this this
    108:27
    and this
    108:28
    and i believe that this this is this is
    108:31
    true but i can’t verify it
    108:34
    and i’m in this room and he’s asking me
    108:36
    to verify
    108:37
    and i could verify a couple but there’s
    108:40
    others i had no idea i never heard of
    108:41
    these things never knew heard of these
    108:43
    incidents
    108:44
    so
    108:45
    i think that
    108:47
    in order for george to put his name in
    108:49
    his book
    108:50
    he must have had some really
    108:53
    uh high level people
    108:56
    uh
    108:57
    tell him it was factual
    108:59
    uh
    109:01
    or
    109:02
    he actually had something that he was
    109:03
    reading that he could verify
    109:05
    that’s my belief well and see here’s the
    109:08
    thing uh again without reading the book
    109:11
    i’m basing everything on social media
    109:14
    at this point
    109:16
    and
    109:17
    how it is in the book factually
    109:20
    that’s one thing
    109:22
    perception by the public is another
    109:25
    where they are going to extrapolate
    109:28
    things out of the book and what is
    109:30
    fascinating to me
    109:32
    is how many people
    109:33
    have
    109:34
    extrapolated it the same exact way
    109:40
    so perception in in the text
    109:43
    is is all of the value here right it’s
    109:46
    the way that the public perceives
    109:49
    what they are reading whether factually
    109:52
    it is it is one way or the other and it
    109:55
    is defensible you know on the part of
    109:58
    the authors but it’s the perception of
    110:00
    the public that matters
    110:03
    well
    110:04
    you know it goes back to the name
    110:06
    skinwalker
    110:07
    and
    110:09
    starting with the credibility of the
    110:10
    people out at skinwalker ranch
    110:13
    from from the from the the
    110:15
    90s on up or even before the 90s because
    110:18
    believe it or not there’s there was
    110:20
    mentioning back in the early 80s about
    110:22
    the skinwalker ranch there’s a there’s a
    110:25
    pilot that uh i’m not sure you know i’m
    110:27
    sure you know about this flying over
    110:29
    that area and saw see these strange
    110:32
    occurrences lights
    110:34
    he’s he it was at night time and he it
    110:36
    was like he was looking down to a vat of
    110:39
    mercury and i mean these things like
    110:41
    that
    110:42
    up to up to just recently when
    110:45
    uh
    110:47
    you know him by awakening man took that
    110:49
    video of of of the triangle flying over
    110:53
    uh uh skinwalker ranch
    110:56
    and then all these other things that fit
    110:58
    in
    110:59
    to
    111:00
    i’m going back to the name of the book
    111:02
    skinwalker at the pentagon and that
    111:04
    could verify these things and now you
    111:07
    jump to the pentagon
    111:10
    and what they’re trying to do
    111:12
    and i’m guessing i don’t know anything
    111:15
    i’m not an insider the pentagon anymore
    111:17
    i i read i read social media is just
    111:20
    like you’re reading i’m looking at these
    111:22
    things that people are saying on social
    111:24
    media
    111:25
    and and as you
    111:27
    are well aware
    111:29
    from october 10th until
    111:31
    present day
    111:32
    the the social media has has exploded
    111:37
    with all sorts of stories about about
    111:39
    skinwalker ranch and about this book
    111:42
    and
    111:44
    now
    111:44
    you fit this in
    111:46
    to the totalitarian tautology of the of
    111:49
    the of the ufo phenomena
    111:51
    and you say
    111:52
    where does this fit in
    111:55
    and again i haven’t read the entire book
    111:58
    but i think that it’s it’s fit it’s
    112:01
    going to fit in somewhere
    112:03
    whether it’s going to turn out to be egg
    112:06
    in the face of somebody that it was in
    112:08
    fact disinformation or whether it was
    112:11
    truthful in parts untruthful in in other
    112:15
    parts because the best disinformation
    112:18
    campaign you can run
    112:20
    is you give them a little bit of truth
    112:24
    a little bit of disinformation come back
    112:27
    with a little bit more truth and then
    112:30
    feed him the
    112:31
    the chorded graph the final all
    112:34
    disinformation
    112:36
    that’s the best this information
    112:37
    campaign you can run now uh what do we
    112:41
    do with the with the other part of of
    112:44
    all of this which
    112:45
    uh and going back to the recent funding
    112:48
    in uh
    112:49
    the intelligence budget uh that just
    112:52
    passed through
    112:53
    and those five pages in there and
    112:55
    there’s five or six points that are
    112:57
    spelled out
    112:58
    and
    112:59
    one of the that that stuck out for me
    113:02
    there was a few
    113:04
    that were just glaring to have this kind
    113:06
    of verbiage in
    113:07
    a budget uh was shocking
    113:10
    but one of the comments that they made
    113:12
    in there was uh
    113:14
    any
    113:15
    debris recovered from a uap
    113:19
    needs to be reported
    113:21
    now i and i just stepped back rick i
    113:24
    read that i thought okay
    113:26
    now there that didn’t just willy-nilly
    113:29
    its way into the budget that is in the
    113:31
    budget because
    113:33
    there has been debris recovered that
    113:36
    wasn’t reported
    113:38
    right that’s that’s the way that i read
    113:40
    uh between the lines there
    113:43
    so
    113:44
    uh
    113:45
    what lou elizondo has been able to do uh
    113:48
    along with chris mellon
    113:50
    uh to facilitate this kind of wording
    113:53
    into
    113:54
    the budget
    113:56
    and and to get this virtually like law
    113:59
    and and written into the to the budget
    114:02
    um there
    114:03
    that’s a huge progress
    114:06
    right that that that’s humongous
    114:09
    and it it it’s in there for a reason do
    114:11
    you think that they have been that
    114:14
    somebody is talking now
    114:16
    that
    114:18
    stuff has been recovered that is not
    114:20
    from this earth that hasn’t been
    114:22
    reported and now we need to start the
    114:25
    trail
    114:26
    on this uh uh on this crash retrieval uh
    114:30
    question
    114:33
    well
    114:34
    yes definitely i think
    114:36
    i think
    114:38
    that’s the first step i think
    114:40
    we have
    114:42
    i know of many many crash
    114:44
    uh sites that occurred even during my
    114:47
    time with the institute of fan studies
    114:49
    we i went out to two but that that
    114:52
    wasn’t reported initially to anybody but
    114:55
    the local sheriff or local uh
    114:58
    authorities
    114:59
    they didn’t know what it was
    115:01
    okay and so they’re recovering something
    115:04
    debris that they think is might be a a
    115:07
    uh
    115:08
    a foreign spacecraft or a satellite
    115:12
    but it’s but we know we knew
    115:15
    uh the two of us that went out there i
    115:17
    knew that it wasn’t
    115:19
    a satellite from
    115:20
    russia or china or some other country
    115:23
    i knew this was something different
    115:26
    but it was i wasn’t in a position at
    115:28
    that time to tell them hey you need to
    115:29
    report this to the air force i did this
    115:31
    myself i notified the closest military
    115:34
    base and this particular instance was in
    115:37
    ellsworth
    115:39
    outside ellsworth air force base in in
    115:41
    south dakota
    115:42
    uh the pla well i was near a spearfish a
    115:45
    rancher found this and and this has been
    115:47
    on his property for some time his son
    115:50
    found it a year and a half before but
    115:53
    thought it was some debris
    115:55
    old debris some kind of a
    115:58
    plow
    115:59
    but when
    116:01
    he went out there with with the local
    116:02
    sheriff the local sheriff
    116:05
    said no i don’t think this came from
    116:06
    space and it’s been there for a year a
    116:09
    little over a year
    116:10
    well when i heard about this we went
    116:12
    there i went there as part of
    116:15
    investigation team from institute for
    116:17
    advanced studies now this is a
    116:19
    proprietary
    116:21
    and i saw what it was i immediately
    116:23
    notified ellsworth air force base now
    116:26
    to get them to believe me of course this
    116:28
    is in the early late 90s
    116:31
    i wasn’t i wasn’t a federal agent
    116:34
    anymore uh trying to get them to believe
    116:37
    what i’m trying to tell them it took
    116:38
    some time but eventually osi at the base
    116:42
    came out
    116:43
    and
    116:44
    then they realized oh
    116:46
    this is the air force they immediately
    116:47
    classified it they made it a national
    116:50
    defense zone
    116:52
    and the federal law when when the
    116:54
    military makes something a national
    116:55
    defense zone they own it they own their
    116:57
    land i don’t care if it’s your land or
    116:59
    whose land it is they own it
    117:02
    until they clear it up
    117:04
    and they brought team out and and they
    117:06
    and they uh recovered it took it back to
    117:08
    the base
    117:09
    where it went from there i don’t know
    117:11
    that’s an example of a crash that
    117:15
    wasn’t reported to fit initially i mean
    117:17
    they knew it was there the ranchers but
    117:19
    they know what it was we’ll come to find
    117:21
    out we know what it was we know what
    117:24
    didn’t come from earth
    117:26
    now i know this is the first time i’ve
    117:28
    ever heard about what what did it look
    117:30
    like rick
    117:31
    it was a round uh it was a huge round
    117:35
    ball uh
    117:38
    of metal
    117:39
    but it was a uh
    117:41
    well i don’t know officially i mean it
    117:43
    wasn’t wasn’t briefed in
    117:46
    but we knew the metals
    117:47
    the metal it was made of
    117:49
    a metal
    117:51
    and it was pliable metal
    117:53
    and they had some uh
    117:55
    uh
    117:57
    something similar to antennas
    117:59
    and some another uh piece of metal that
    118:02
    was uh like a v on the bottom
    118:05
    protruding from the bottom we couldn’t
    118:07
    we didn’t i didn’t get into it it was
    118:09
    just a round piece of ball but because
    118:12
    of the the structure
    118:15
    scientists determine it didn’t come from
    118:17
    earth because
    118:18
    we don’t have metals like that on earth
    118:21
    and
    118:22
    it came through the atmosphere
    118:24
    it was somewhat singed
    118:26
    but anything that had come through an
    118:29
    atmosphere should have had more burp
    118:31
    marks on it but this particular metal or
    118:34
    whatever it was the materials i’ll just
    118:36
    say the materials could withstand
    118:39
    thousands of degrees in temperature and
    118:41
    now again i’m not a scientist i don’t
    118:43
    know exactly how they tested it
    118:45
    and that went to somewhere else i don’t
    118:47
    know where probably area 51
    118:49
    and that was in the late 90s
    118:52
    there was some some parts of that
    118:55
    darpa took over and i don’t know what
    118:57
    they did i wasn’t able to brief into the
    118:59
    program but there’s been a lot of other
    119:02
    crashes even back going back to the 50s
    119:05
    and 60s
    119:06
    that were recovered and people had this
    119:09
    stuff and it wasn’t reported now what
    119:12
    this i know i know i read i’ve i’ve read
    119:15
    about what you’re talking about now
    119:17
    they’re trying to put a uh something in
    119:19
    a bill uh to congress
    119:22
    that will say that they they we have to
    119:25
    the united states government has to
    119:27
    investigate every single uh area
    119:30
    phenomena uh uaps ufos that crash
    119:34
    uh yeah i understand that
    119:36
    and i think
    119:38
    we already have a policy it might be
    119:40
    classified still
    119:41
    we have a retrieval program a crash
    119:43
    retrieval program i spoke about that on
    119:46
    on one of my episodes
    119:47
    at gaia about how we do it how we set up
    119:51
    the recovery
    119:52
    when one the government knows about it
    119:55
    there they send a team out a special
    119:58
    team of people to go out and recover
    119:59
    these things we already are doing this
    120:02
    but
    120:03
    why they’re putting it in the bill i
    120:04
    think it’s because of the uh the people
    120:07
    that are
    120:08
    unwitting realizing that uh
    120:11
    we know maybe the government’s doing it
    120:13
    we want publicized so the public knows
    120:16
    that we’re doing it now uh uh today
    120:21
    this is crazy
    120:23
    uh i’m in my backyard it’s about uh 12
    120:27
    o’clock
    120:28
    one o’clock in the afternoon
    120:30
    and
    120:31
    uh
    120:32
    i walk out in the backyard to hang uh
    120:35
    my hummingbird feeder that i just filled
    120:38
    up
    120:39
    okay so that’s what i was doing and
    120:41
    and i i get down off of the step ladder
    120:44
    and i just happen to be facing
    120:47
    i live about uh a mile two miles from
    120:51
    skunk works
    120:52
    and and i just happen to be looking in
    120:54
    that direction and i see this black
    120:57
    jet
    120:58
    taking off from skunk works that’s
    121:01
    coming over the houses
    121:03
    and it’s coming straight at me and it’s
    121:05
    it’s hauling balls and anyway and then
    121:09
    it takes it’s black and it takes this
    121:11
    turn
    121:12
    low it’s not flying up
    121:15
    into the sky staying low and it takes
    121:18
    this turn
    121:19
    and and flies the other way i’ve never
    121:21
    seen a jet
    121:22
    shaped like this
    121:24
    and i hope i’m not giving away some
    121:26
    government secrets
    121:28
    and talking about this but
    121:30
    um and i didn’t my phone was in the
    121:33
    house and it was gone
    121:35
    um but i was at the right moment at the
    121:38
    right time i i can’t really describe it
    121:41
    i i i can’t it didn’t look like uh
    121:45
    it didn’t look like it had a tail
    121:48
    but it turned so what what i saw
    121:51
    originally it looked flat
    121:54
    um and then it kind of took this but i
    121:56
    didn’t see a tail on it and then it
    121:58
    turned it leaned right so i could see
    122:01
    kind of see the wings
    122:03
    but it was low and fast and then just
    122:06
    and disappeared never took off into the
    122:08
    sky
    122:09
    my guess is it just made this big
    122:11
    sweeping turn and stayed low and flew up
    122:13
    to edwards which is like seven miles
    122:15
    away
    122:16
    eight miles away in in that direction
    122:19
    but it was cool to see it at that moment
    122:21
    and these secret programs are going on
    122:23
    all the time and i don’t know what this
    122:25
    was it was fast though
    122:28
    fast it wasn’t
    122:30
    it was it was at speed very quickly you
    122:32
    know i i saw it come off the runway and
    122:35
    then just just take this turn it was
    122:37
    nuts it was cool
    122:39
    well i would i i was part of a
    122:41
    documentary
    122:42
    film filming for uh for uh
    122:46
    several months
    122:47
    uh where we went out and and sat up on
    122:50
    the outside of tunnel air force base in
    122:52
    nevada or groom lake
    122:54
    uh
    122:55
    three or four different uh crews would
    122:58
    be at various locations around the
    123:00
    nellis test and training range
    123:03
    and
    123:03
    all we did out there was we watched and
    123:06
    filmed
    123:08
    everything that was flying out there
    123:10
    and you’re talking about
    123:12
    that experience you should have seen
    123:15
    what we filmed
    123:17
    uh
    123:18
    crafts that could not be explained
    123:21
    phenomenons that could not be explained
    123:24
    uh mostly i mean
    123:26
    a lot of what we were seeing was
    123:28
    classified drones
    123:30
    um fighter drones
    123:32
    drones that are are fighting against
    123:34
    another plane in the sky
    123:36
    uh the the conventional plane is piloted
    123:39
    by they’re either f-16s or 22s or 35s
    123:43
    and but the drone
    123:45
    is flying because there’s no pilot in
    123:47
    the cockpit are is doing
    123:50
    extraordinary
    123:52
    maneuvers that would probably kill the
    123:54
    pilot and and this is going to be aired
    123:57
    here in a little i’m not going to give
    123:58
    away everything but this is going to be
    124:00
    aired here in a little while and it’s
    124:03
    going to be fascinating to watch
    124:06
    now one of the things
    124:07
    one of the the things that happened
    124:09
    while we were out there
    124:11
    was we were about two miles from the
    124:13
    perimeter
    124:14
    of tunnel paw and we were in a place
    124:16
    called roston valley and you can look on
    124:19
    a nevada map
    124:21
    up up near south uh north of tonopah and
    124:24
    see where roston valley is there’s
    124:26
    nothing out there i mean there’s just
    124:27
    some scrubs uh
    124:30
    it’s uh there’s um a pronghorn deer is
    124:33
    prevalent out there so okay i just blew
    124:36
    past a commercial break save that for
    124:39
    when we come back this is fade to black
    124:41
    our guest tonight rick dodi
    124:42
    got lots more to talk about we’re going
    124:44
    to swing this right back to osap and
    124:46
    skin walk i assure you but i want to
    124:48
    know what he saw at a tone upon this is
    124:50
    fade to black i’m real jimmy church stay
    124:52
    with us

  4. rosettasister Says:

    65:14
    welcome back fade to black i am your
    65:15
    host jimmy church tonight rick dodie is
    65:17
    here we’re talking about
    65:19
    well this new book lots of stuff i
    65:22
    haven’t read it yet
    65:25
    i’m trying to figure all of this out i’m
    65:27
    not paying too much attention to the
    65:28
    social media drama but what if it’s all
    65:31
    true
    65:32
    very interesting our guest tonight rick
    65:34
    dodi discussing all of this if there’s
    65:36
    somebody that understands disinformation
    65:40
    man you know what you’re never going to
    65:41
    escape it rick
    65:42
    never never never
    65:45
    it’s always going to be there
    65:46
    um uh i i gotta say uh you uh you’re a
    65:51
    better man than i
    65:52
    uh
    65:53
    to stand up and and and face things that
    65:56
    you have over the years but uh
    65:58
    uh that’s that’s another show for
    66:00
    another time
    66:01
    let’s uh i wanna uh address this funding
    66:04
    this funding
    66:06
    uh if
    66:07
    if it wasn’t congressional if it wasn’t
    66:12
    uh harry reid and his
    66:14
    senate buddies that pushed this through
    66:16
    to get this congressional money over
    66:18
    this 22 million dollars
    66:20
    and it turned out to be funding directly
    66:22
    from the military why is that important
    66:26
    well it’s important because uh
    66:29
    well number one the government can hide
    66:32
    money
    66:33
    a number of ways within within the
    66:35
    appropriations
    66:36
    congress appropriates the money for the
    66:39
    different agencies within the government
    66:42
    the gut the the congress appropriates
    66:44
    money for the department of defense it
    66:46
    can be in one or two ways it can be open
    66:49
    open uh
    66:51
    source so so so to speak open to the
    66:54
    public amounts of money where where it
    66:56
    goes
    66:58
    there’ll be line items within the budget
    67:00
    saying you know 50 million dollars has
    67:02
    to go to the f-22 projects uh a program
    67:06
    and so forth and so on but within the
    67:08
    government
    67:09
    there is
    67:10
    clover operations and covert
    67:12
    appropriations of money black black
    67:15
    projects
    67:16
    and within that black project but within
    67:18
    that covert uh appropriations
    67:21
    uh this is when you get into the
    67:23
    endigoma within an enigma
    67:26
    because the money
    67:27
    isn’t designated in a in a appropriation
    67:30
    so where it goes for instance uh the
    67:33
    last appropriations and i did a did a
    67:35
    little show on this some some years ago
    67:38
    it was 50 billion dollars
    67:41
    that was appropriated for intelligence
    67:43
    purposes
    67:45
    it was in a black project
    67:47
    and all it said in the line item we
    67:50
    actually
    67:50
    we actually got the budget except of
    67:53
    course for the classified portion of it
    67:55
    which had
    67:57
    50 somewhat it was broken down and the
    67:59
    50 billion was broken down and there’s
    68:01
    so much for the dod so much for
    68:05
    other agencies it’s not they’re not
    68:07
    saying cia
    68:08
    darpa or any of the other agencies all
    68:11
    the other
    68:13
    alphabet agencies
    68:14
    and so once that money is appropriated
    68:17
    it goes to an agency
    68:19
    uh say for instance d i adi’s gives it
    68:22
    to darpa now and now
    68:25
    that money
    68:26
    is
    68:27
    gone so to speak you and i can’t go in
    68:31
    there even a gao the government
    68:34
    accounting office can’t go in and audit
    68:36
    if there’s restrictions on what they can
    68:38
    audit because what they would say is if
    68:41
    you disclose the amount of money
    68:43
    that is being spent on a particular
    68:45
    project that would endanger national
    68:48
    security
    68:49
    and in some cases maybe maybe that’s
    68:52
    true but other cases uh it’s just a way
    68:55
    to hide the money for these programs
    68:57
    that you’re talking about now atep uh
    69:00
    now
    69:01
    maybe maybe uh senator reid and i you
    69:04
    know i really like senator reid i met
    69:06
    him before he’s a great guy great
    69:09
    representative for the state of nevada
    69:12
    uh he was
    69:13
    really interested in the subject
    69:15
    uh in all
    69:18
    facets of it but
    69:20
    he he’s part of a per of an age of a of
    69:24
    entity within the government a senate in
    69:25
    the senate he was the majority leader
    69:28
    for a number of years he could put he
    69:30
    could request money be put into to a
    69:33
    particular project
    69:35
    but he loses track of it after that he
    69:38
    can’t go in and say okay what happened
    69:40
    to my 22 million dollars where did it go
    69:43
    well it went into this black project and
    69:46
    from there
    69:48
    you might not be cleared for it you have
    69:50
    to now within the government remember
    69:51
    just because you have a security
    69:52
    clearance doesn’t mean you have a need
    69:53
    to know
    69:55
    and so
    69:56
    i think that money came from a black
    69:58
    project
    70:00
    but not necessarily atep i think
    70:02
    it could have been any other and this is
    70:04
    my only just my opinion i don’t know
    70:06
    anything factual just i’m guessing but i
    70:08
    know a lot about government funding
    70:10
    because i worked in it
    70:12
    worked in the government dia dia and osi
    70:16
    and we we requested money and we got it
    70:19
    uh
    70:20
    we went in and requested 10 million
    70:22
    dollars and we got 10 million dollars
    70:24
    two hours later where did it come from
    70:26
    it came from this
    70:28
    kitty we used to call it the gods kitty
    70:31
    when nobody knew where it came from it
    70:32
    was just god kid god’s kitty and we also
    70:35
    had money
    70:36
    going back a little bit
    70:38
    that never we had a appropriations of
    70:40
    money in a certain what we call a fun
    70:43
    site a numbered account
    70:46
    that money never ran out we could never
    70:48
    spend it all no matter what we spent we
    70:51
    always still had money there that’s just
    70:54
    an example how the government works how
    70:56
    the money within the dod and i don’t
    70:59
    even talk about the dod right now how
    71:01
    their money works
    71:02
    so
    71:03
    i i’m thinking that this money was in
    71:05
    fact some type of appropriations
    71:08
    but i believe it was probably military
    71:10
    because they get the bulk of the money
    71:13
    uh now
    71:15
    uh the other part of this
    71:18
    if
    71:18
    if again if these statements are true
    71:21
    with the book i have to for clarity i
    71:23
    haven’t read it
    71:25
    um
    71:26
    but
    71:27
    uh
    71:27
    [Music]
    71:29
    could could lu elizondo suddenly be the
    71:32
    fall guy
    71:34
    and he’s probably listening right now
    71:36
    you know but it seems like this is kind
    71:40
    of leading up to something like this and
    71:44
    that i’m going back to the statements by
    71:45
    susan goff
    71:47
    um and and lou having to lawyer up with
    71:50
    uh
    71:51
    daniel sheehan
    71:53
    get this ig investigation going loose
    71:56
    emails are missing
    71:58
    uh the statements uh are contradictory
    72:00
    from lou from
    72:03
    uh
    72:04
    everything was countered by the
    72:06
    department of defense and the pentagon
    72:07
    and susan galf
    72:09
    um and it it felt then that lou was
    72:13
    being made out to be the fall guy here
    72:16
    and then we have this where atip
    72:19
    had no funding there was no funding
    72:21
    there so
    72:23
    how did atib do any investigations uh
    72:26
    without any funding unless everybody was
    72:28
    working pro bono
    72:31
    well i don’t think anybody was working
    72:32
    pro bono i think the money came from
    72:35
    somewhere it came from some entity some
    72:37
    some funding site somewhere within the
    72:40
    government
    72:41
    i don’t think lou i mean i don’t know
    72:42
    lou uh but i i i find it difficult
    72:47
    to see how they can throw him under the
    72:49
    bus i mean he was doing his job i mean
    72:52
    there’s so much so many people that i
    72:54
    know
    72:55
    uh that still work within the government
    72:57
    including two of my two relatives
    73:00
    uh that knew him one of them i’m say one
    73:03
    relative knew him and knew where he
    73:05
    worked in the pentagon and and and and
    73:09
    would say yeah you lose doing what is
    73:11
    what he’s supposed to do he and he comes
    73:14
    out now he’s no longer working for the
    73:16
    government
    73:17
    and he tells a story
    73:19
    um
    73:20
    i believe him i i i believe what he’s
    73:23
    saying
    73:24
    now i don’t know
    73:25
    it’s just my own personal uh opinion of
    73:28
    him because i don’t know the guy i just
    73:30
    i’ve seen him speak on on social media
    73:33
    i’ve seen him speak on podcasts and so
    73:35
    forth and i’ve watched youtube videos of
    73:37
    him um he seems very knowledgeable we
    73:41
    know his background is factual we know
    73:44
    we can go in and check his military and
    73:46
    his civilian uh his dod civilian uh uh
    73:50
    work you know everything’s that that all
    73:53
    adds up
    73:54
    now what he’s saying i know what the
    73:56
    pentagon spokesman is saying that no no
    73:59
    he didn’t he didn’t do this but i think
    74:02
    that’s that’s that’s disinformation i
    74:05
    think they’re throwing him under
    74:07
    because too much has been released
    74:10
    this is on my opinion too much has been
    74:12
    released and now they got a backtrack
    74:15
    and and and lou is now public and now
    74:18
    lou is being thrown under the bus
    74:20
    it’s uh it’s it’s astonishing to me and
    74:24
    the other part is
    74:26
    uh
    74:27
    we all watched
    74:29
    the case for
    74:31
    ttsa
    74:33
    um lou elizondo the three navy videos
    74:37
    dave fraver the establishment of ttsa
    74:40
    their mission statements and the case
    74:42
    get laid out by
    74:44
    uh
    74:45
    the original article by leslie kane and
    74:48
    ralph blumenthal
    74:49
    which stated in that article 22 million
    74:53
    dollars right secretly funding uh this
    74:56
    ufo program within uh the department of
    74:59
    defense
    75:00
    uh called a tip and all of it was laid
    75:03
    out and the case was made
    75:05
    right all it and now
    75:07
    it is
    75:09
    being unraveled
    75:11
    completely
    75:12
    and i i don’t know who’s pulling these
    75:14
    strings it it is it’s it’s unreal not
    75:17
    only to the ufo community but think
    75:19
    about tucker carlson right
    75:22
    think about 60 minutes uh in the new
    75:24
    york times and everything else that all
    75:26
    of this is about to come unraveled i
    75:29
    just don’t get it rick i don’t
    75:31
    well that’s that’s that’s the that’s a
    75:34
    classical disinformation
    75:36
    campaign within the government uh they
    75:38
    don’t call it that they call it
    75:39
    counterintelligence but you know
    75:42
    i wish
    75:43
    um i could have run something like this
    75:45
    back in my days i mean i ran some good
    75:48
    good counterintelligence programs and
    75:50
    they fooled a lot of people especially
    75:52
    the press when i did it
    75:54
    you know
    75:55
    worked against
    75:57
    some local medias that were trying to
    75:59
    spread something or of course the the
    76:02
    classical linda howell case that i that
    76:04
    i worked on and what she
    76:07
    was trying to to uh pedal to the hbo but
    76:10
    but they’re doing it they’re doing what
    76:13
    a class i mean my my friends who are
    76:16
    still
    76:16
    or a lot of retired intelligence
    76:18
    officers are saying exactly the same
    76:20
    thing i’m reading emails here of exactly
    76:23
    the same thing that we did back then
    76:25
    that they’re doing now is this just as a
    76:27
    disinformation campaign
    76:29
    now uh
    76:30
    what does uh
    76:33
    [Music]
    76:34
    if if we take once i read the book if
    76:36
    the book states these things and we take
    76:38
    everything at face value
    76:41
    what does leslie do what does ralph do
    76:44
    um knapp is taking his position in this
    76:47
    book
    76:48
    i guess but
    76:50
    you have everybody else you know you’re
    76:52
    going to have chris mellon and
    76:54
    and harry reid and lou elizondo and
    76:56
    leslie and ralph everybody’s going to be
    76:59
    forced into taking positions here about
    77:01
    what was presented and what’s factual
    77:04
    and and what is not right i mean that’s
    77:06
    the only path forward
    77:08
    absolutely yeah leslie i i really i
    77:11
    really like leslie she’s she’s a very
    77:13
    very good field investigating she digs
    77:16
    it up i i enjoy her books i i mean i i
    77:20
    liked it i enjoyed listening to her i
    77:23
    was on some of the same programs she was
    77:26
    some of these showtime specials um and
    77:30
    george knapp is a good friend of mine i
    77:32
    uh you know george and i
    77:35
    sat in a hotel room one night talking
    77:38
    about some things that are we won’t talk
    77:41
    outside the room but um
    77:44
    and and these people have to take a
    77:46
    position exactly
    77:47
    what you exactly you said
    77:49
    and and i’m not i’m not sure how they’re
    77:51
    going to do that
    77:52
    um because what they’re saying
    77:55
    is
    77:56
    what leslie uh put out there and uh is
    78:00
    is
    78:01
    and what lewis said what chris mullin
    78:03
    and i i know of chris mullen i mean he’s
    78:06
    very well respected within the intellis
    78:08
    intelligence community in government
    78:11
    um i’m not sure what they’re going to do
    78:13
    they’re going to have to take a position
    78:14
    i’m not sure what it’s going to be now
    78:16
    uh
    78:18
    and
    78:18
    there’s a there’s another angle uh to
    78:21
    all of this
    78:22
    and that is
    78:25
    uh george knapp now uh again for
    78:29
    clarification
    78:30
    here um i want to ask you two questions
    78:32
    before we move forward
    78:34
    one are you under any kind of nda
    78:38
    uh with hal put off uh with bass with
    78:41
    bigelow or anything like that you can
    78:44
    speak freely on all those matters
    78:47
    i i have never worked for nids
    78:50
    uh the institute for advanced studies
    78:52
    worked with him uh i my only a
    78:55
    proprietary uh agreement was with hal
    78:58
    put off an institute for advanced
    78:59
    studies
    79:00
    that information that i gathered that he
    79:03
    used in a proprietary manner that i’m
    79:05
    not to discuss and and i’ll honor that
    79:08
    now okay the fact that i did do it the
    79:11
    fact that i gathered information uh is
    79:14
    not is that proprietary and the second
    79:17
    part is
    79:18
    uh the j.j abrams ufo docu-series the
    79:22
    four-parter on showtime
    79:24
    you are in
    79:26
    um are you under any restrictions there
    79:28
    for commenting uh about that tv series
    79:34
    yes yeah yeah i am yeah i did cite i did
    79:38
    sign it yes and
    79:40
    and i was made aware of that and you and
    79:42
    i discussed this a couple of months ago
    79:44
    and i just want to be very clear with
    79:46
    the audience well you know why jimmy why
    79:48
    aren’t you going there well okay
    79:51
    so i’m not going to speak directly but i
    79:54
    will make a comment
    79:56
    and that is
    79:58
    george knapp in that documentary
    80:02
    appeared to and i don’t know if it was
    80:04
    clever editing on on
    80:06
    uh showtime’s part and jj abram j.j
    80:09
    abrams i think it’s bad robot
    80:11
    i could be wrong um
    80:14
    that
    80:15
    the ufo story
    80:18
    being played out to the public
    80:21
    is all a cover-up
    80:23
    for
    80:25
    secret projects
    80:27
    and and george in this section of
    80:31
    episode three
    80:33
    certainly
    80:34
    alludes to this
    80:36
    which is in direct contrast of of george
    80:40
    in the ufo position and the things that
    80:42
    he has brought to us
    80:43
    as a hero for many many many years
    80:46
    decades
    80:48
    and i thought to myself
    80:49
    does george know that they’ve edited
    80:52
    this way to give this appearance but
    80:54
    also jj abrams
    80:57
    in the last two episodes
    80:59
    certainly
    81:00
    took that swing um in the tv series and
    81:04
    now we have this today
    81:07
    could the ufo
    81:10
    enigma you’ve said it five times in the
    81:12
    show i’ll say it again
    81:14
    um could our government uh the air force
    81:17
    and the navy and the department of
    81:18
    defense take advantage of the ufo
    81:22
    question
    81:23
    as a cover-up to
    81:25
    uh
    81:26
    military projects
    81:30
    yes yes and and they have
    81:32
    i’ve worked on projects
    81:35
    in my career my my intelligence career
    81:38
    where
    81:38
    we um disinformed somebody because of of
    81:42
    uh wanting them to believe
    81:44
    it was a ufo but the actuality it was a
    81:47
    some high
    81:48
    highly classified
    81:50
    uh uh aerial project that we were
    81:52
    working on such as a drone program back
    81:54
    in the 80s that was highly classified i
    81:57
    mean they were they were doing in
    82:00
    a lot of uh
    82:01
    flying and experiments in new mexico and
    82:04
    other places using drones and drones
    82:07
    were just really new technology back
    82:09
    then and we were trying to convince
    82:11
    people what they were saying with ufos
    82:13
    yes it’s possible
    82:14
    but there’s a lot of parts of this
    82:19
    that that wouldn’t work because
    82:23
    one particular instance or incident
    82:26
    if somebody saw something and now we’re
    82:29
    going to uh try to convince somebody
    82:31
    that it’s it’s ufos but in actuality
    82:34
    with some kind of a secret project
    82:37
    such as tic tac
    82:38
    um i don’t think it would work
    82:40
    i think there’s too many people within
    82:42
    the government would would
    82:44
    would not would not buy that i think in
    82:46
    some cases yes
    82:48
    overall speaking no
    82:51
    isolated incidents yes and i you know
    82:53
    tic tac is a isn’t a clearly example of
    82:56
    something that
    82:57
    is really out of this world
    82:59
    i mean
    83:00
    i’ve talked to kevin day about this i
    83:02
    mean i really admire that guy
    83:05
    a great service to his country
    83:08
    uh where he was what he did what he saw
    83:11
    he’s an expert
    83:13
    in viewing
    83:14
    a scope and determining what’s on there
    83:18
    now you can’t come in some lay person
    83:19
    can’t come in and say well kevin you
    83:21
    weren’t really seeing what you were
    83:22
    seeing or you didn’t interpret it right
    83:25
    you can’t do that he’s an expert
    83:27
    and and that that really upsets me when
    83:30
    people do that
    83:31
    uh but like tic tac
    83:33
    how can that be explained pilots trained
    83:36
    pilots probably the most uh uh credible
    83:40
    observers
    83:41
    that we have in the military fighter
    83:44
    pilots i mean they have to make split
    83:46
    second decisions on something that
    83:49
    they’re viewing they’re chasing things
    83:51
    combat veterans
    83:53
    uh combat pilots who’ve fought in in
    83:56
    desert storm and other other are the
    83:58
    wars are now determining
    84:00
    uh that what they are seeing
    84:03
    isn’t from this earth like i’ve i’ve
    84:06
    listened to these and i’ve i’ve sat down
    84:07
    to one of the pilots and talked to him
    84:09
    face to face at a ufo convention and he
    84:11
    told me he said i don’t care what
    84:13
    anybody says that’s not from this earth
    84:17
    so
    84:19
    can the go back to your question can the
    84:21
    government
    84:22
    uh
    84:23
    disinform
    84:26
    this entire question of ufos no i think
    84:30
    there’s too many
    84:32
    uh
    84:33
    too many roads they would run off into
    84:36
    ditch if they tried to do that there’s
    84:37
    just too much information out there over
    84:40
    the years that would discredit the
    84:42
    government in doing that so now the
    84:43
    govern government has to go back and
    84:46
    what they do is what they what we refer
    84:48
    to as open
    84:49
    open
    84:50
    uh discredit somebody or
    84:53
    open disinformed meaning they’ll just
    84:55
    throw stuff
    84:56
    stuff out there for instance the the
    84:58
    pentagon spokesman she what she said
    85:01
    about lou elizondo
    85:03
    uh she’ll just throw this stuff out
    85:05
    there and let the let the public decide
    85:07
    whether the government comes comes in
    85:10
    and gives you a final final
    85:12
    determination of what there should
    85:14
    should be or what you should believe
    85:16
    they’ll just throw this information out
    85:18
    there and let the government decide it
    85:20
    throws a
    85:22
    lot of monkey wrenches into it and and
    85:24
    it just it just creates an enigma within
    85:27
    an enigma within a conduct
    85:30
    a a a
    85:32
    confused state for the public
    85:34
    and uh when we
    85:37
    when we start to look at this in in
    85:39
    totality
    85:41
    um
    85:42
    with everything happening all at the
    85:44
    same time
    85:46
    and and i’ve said this so many times on
    85:48
    this program rick
    85:49
    everything is happening at the same time
    85:51
    we have science we have the media we
    85:53
    have the senate intelligence committee
    85:55
    we have
    85:56
    uh the uap task force of course we have
    85:59
    the efforts of louis lozando and and
    86:01
    chris mellon
    86:03
    we have the immense coverage that is
    86:05
    going on we have all of the television
    86:07
    programming
    86:08
    uh uh ttsa was a big part of this
    86:13
    all of this is happening at the same
    86:15
    time
    86:16
    and
    86:17
    where we thought that we were taking all
    86:19
    of these momentous
    86:21
    huge giant steps forward strides
    86:25
    forward
    86:27
    it seems that
    86:29
    it could
    86:30
    go backwards now
    86:32
    that we may take a couple of big steps
    86:34
    back and and is that is that ultimately
    86:38
    what’s happening because
    86:40
    if if we look at it in totality
    86:44
    it’s it’s being unraveled somebody has
    86:46
    yanked on a piece of yarn uh you know on
    86:48
    the sweater
    86:51
    that’s exactly what the government wants
    86:53
    uh they want it to unravel they want the
    86:57
    they want to keep it
    86:59
    so confusing
    87:01
    that a lot of people if you throw for
    87:03
    instance there was a study done some
    87:04
    years ago it didn’t have anything to do
    87:06
    about ufos but it was a psychological
    87:09
    study that was done by a university i
    87:11
    think it was harvard or anyway it was
    87:13
    done back easton and what they did was
    87:16
    they put they found a hundred people put
    87:18
    them in a room they kept them in this
    87:20
    building for a x number of days i think
    87:23
    30 days and they were throwing so much
    87:25
    at them uh
    87:26
    to try to change their opinion on
    87:29
    different things
    87:30
    and and all they’re doing is it’s it’s
    87:33
    visual
    87:34
    and lectures
    87:36
    so at the end of this time period i
    87:38
    don’t remember what it was
    87:39
    uh
    87:42
    they
    87:43
    they bring these people out and they
    87:44
    stay and they notice that their
    87:45
    personalities changed their notice that
    87:48
    their perception has changed the
    87:50
    perception of the subjects matters that
    87:53
    they were
    87:54
    shown inside that that that living area
    87:57
    changed and it’s just an example of what
    88:00
    the government does
    88:01
    to the public
    88:03
    and and it’s just
    88:04
    if you throw so much
    88:06
    at the public
    88:08
    and it confuses the public a lot of
    88:10
    people will just say you know i’m not
    88:12
    going to lose i’m not gonna i’m gonna
    88:14
    hang up
    88:15
    my belief in ufos i’m gonna hang up my
    88:17
    beliefs and such and such and i think
    88:20
    that’s what the government’s trying to
    88:21
    do
    88:22
    we’re at we’re at a crossroads right now
    88:24
    as you as you say we’re at a crossroads
    88:27
    right now uh of
    88:29
    of
    88:30
    this massive disclosure
    88:32
    of the people within the government know
    88:35
    the truth
    88:36
    we want to we want to
    88:38
    put it out there
    88:39
    and
    88:40
    the government that is pushing up
    88:42
    against that
    88:44
    and we have to proceed forward i mean a
    88:46
    lot of people out there i know will say
    88:48
    oh dodie’s a disinformation person no
    88:50
    i’m not not anymore i used to be i want
    88:53
    this out there more than anybody else
    88:55
    and i wish i could go to washington and
    88:59
    and at a news conference and tell them
    89:01
    everything i know there’s a lot of
    89:03
    things that you don’t want to know you
    89:04
    know that classical cliche of be careful
    89:08
    what you ask for there’s a lot of things
    89:11
    within this subject matter that would be
    89:15
    probably detrimental
    89:17
    to
    89:17
    the public you don’t want to know it
    89:20
    and i know people ask me well what would
    89:22
    we want to know well you want to know
    89:24
    what reagan knew and what some of the
    89:26
    other presidents knew the dangers that
    89:28
    were facing on earth and so forth why
    89:31
    not now at this crossroads bring this
    89:34
    out and let the public know
    89:37
    the uh the other part to this
    89:40
    um and this is why i was asking what you
    89:44
    could discuss about the past uh when it
    89:46
    came to bigelow
    89:47
    awesomenidge because uh hal put off you
    89:50
    know kick green the crew
    89:52
    it’s it’s been the same actors in each
    89:55
    stage of robert bigelow’s
    89:58
    uh ufo uh travels
    90:01
    but
    90:02
    why
    90:03
    if if awsap was all about ufos and you
    90:07
    had bass you had nids you had ossep you
    90:10
    had funding you have skinwalker the book
    90:12
    is called skinwalkers at the pentagon
    90:15
    that if that is the case why does
    90:17
    bigelow sell
    90:19
    walker
    90:20
    if it is the center of the known
    90:21
    universe
    90:25
    i think because of the
    90:27
    other phenomenons that are that are
    90:29
    occurring have occurred out there i mean
    90:31
    i personally
    90:33
    i have said this over and over again
    90:35
    i’ve said it on my episodes in gaia i’ve
    90:38
    never saw anything strange out there i
    90:40
    mean i was out there twice
    90:42
    uh spent time out there i never saw
    90:45
    anything strange i saw
    90:47
    remnants of what happened such as this
    90:50
    building had just caught fire
    90:52
    uh
    90:53
    by itself i mean according to people
    90:55
    that told me this i wasn’t there at the
    90:57
    time
    90:58
    the um
    91:00
    the
    91:01
    the strange occurrences over this one
    91:03
    bridge
    91:04
    these strange lights now i did see the
    91:07
    lights
    91:08
    but it they didn’t seem that strange to
    91:10
    me i think there was probably an
    91:12
    explanation
    91:13
    for for that i don’t know i mean i’m not
    91:16
    a scientist
    91:17
    but i’m just
    91:18
    looking at that
    91:20
    so
    91:21
    but there are there were a lot of things
    91:22
    out there i believe everything george
    91:24
    knapp said i mean i’ve talked to many
    91:26
    many people uh some of the crew that was
    91:28
    out there out of out of the institute
    91:30
    for advanced studies when i wasn’t there
    91:32
    they would come back and say
    91:34
    all these things happen why believe
    91:36
    these people could because they’re they
    91:37
    were government they were former
    91:39
    government there were scientists
    91:41
    and they they couldn’t explain it when
    91:44
    when a phenomena happens
    91:47
    and you have
    91:48
    five scientists observe it
    91:51
    and they go back and they try to figure
    91:54
    out what they observed by looking at the
    91:56
    film
    91:57
    and scientific calculations and
    92:00
    and they’re baffled by it
    92:02
    then that’s kind of scary that’s that’s
    92:05
    scary now what’s happening out there
    92:08
    what they got into out there i have no
    92:10
    idea i mean i i just don’t know i’m not
    92:12
    a scientist like i said
    92:14
    uh and i i’m as as interested
    92:18
    uh
    92:19
    in that skin locker ranch as anybody
    92:21
    else is and i think i think robert
    92:23
    bigelow
    92:24
    uh bought it back in the in the 90s
    92:28
    because of the
    92:29
    of the uh um
    92:32
    i guess the uh stories that were being
    92:35
    that told to him
    92:37
    and the phenomena that was unexplained
    92:40
    uh lay people were trying to explain
    92:42
    something that only a maybe a scientist
    92:44
    could explain so i think robert bigelow
    92:47
    and hids started started that bought it
    92:50
    and tried to figure out what’s out there
    92:52
    now maybe it is a portal
    92:54
    you know a lot of people say it’s a
    92:56
    portal to uh
    92:58
    uh to the unknown it’s portal to uh the
    93:01
    ufos uh the aliens ets have some kind of
    93:04
    portal maybe that’s possible
    93:06
    why sell it that’s the question let’s
    93:08
    take our break right here this is fade
    93:10
    to black i’m going to mature it’s
    93:11
    tonight rick doty
    93:13
    talking about this book uh it was
    93:15
    released back on october 10th it is
    93:17
    called skinwalkers at the pentagon
    93:19
    yeah all right to go to amazon get your
    93:22
    own copy i’ll have mine tomorrow this is
    93:25
    fade to black i’m murals jimmy church
    93:26
    we’ll be right back

  5. rosettasister Says:

    @ 35:36

    35:37
    all right welcome back fade to black i
    35:38
    am your host jimmy church big week on
    35:40
    fade to black tonight rick dodi is here
    35:42
    tomorrow night anjali wednesday night
    35:45
    jacques vale and thursday night linda
    35:48
    moulton howe
    35:49
    and uh somebody pinch me that’s a great
    35:51
    week i mean they’re always great weeks
    35:53
    they really are but yeah pretty pretty
    35:55
    cool week coming up tonight rick dodie
    35:58
    joins us we’re going to be discussing
    36:00
    the recent revelations about skinwalker
    36:02
    ranch the dod involvement in funding
    36:05
    bass asap mufon and the possibility of a
    36:08
    massive disinformation program that is
    36:10
    being run right now by our government or
    36:12
    somebody pulling some strings rick was
    36:14
    born in new york state but grew up in a
    36:16
    military family and then served his
    36:18
    country in the united states air force
    36:20
    he was hired by the air force office of
    36:22
    special investigation after attending
    36:24
    intelligence courses taught by afois
    36:31
    something in my throat and that’s why i
    36:33
    drink
    36:34
    river moon coffee
    36:39
    wait a minute
    36:40
    defense intelligence agency
    36:43
    cia
    36:45
    yeah rick dodie’s all that richard
    36:47
    served at kirtland air force base as a
    36:49
    counterintelligence officer he saw duty
    36:52
    in nevada test site air force test
    36:53
    center detachment 3 groom lake nevada he
    36:56
    investigated the coyote canyon
    36:59
    ufo sighting on kirtland air force base
    37:01
    and of course the paul benowitz incident
    37:04
    he was also assigned to the afosi
    37:06
    european headquarters wiesbaden germany
    37:09
    as a counter espionage agent
    37:12
    everybody at wiesbaden is
    37:14
    counterintelligence by the way he wasn’t
    37:16
    the only one richard was assigned to the
    37:18
    air force reserve unit later was
    37:20
    employed by the state of new mexico
    37:23
    and uh he also worked for the institute
    37:25
    of advanced studies which was directed
    37:27
    by dr hal put off today he’s retired so
    37:31
    he says and i would like to welcome back
    37:33
    to fade to black rick doty rick good
    37:35
    evening young man how you doing
    37:38
    great jimmy great to be at your show
    37:40
    it’s uh
    37:41
    the ufo community man it is truly the
    37:44
    gift that keeps on giving rick it’s a
    37:47
    never dull moment around here
    37:49
    and uh it’s so funny as as things
    37:52
    started to
    37:54
    unravel and develop over the past few
    37:56
    days
    37:57
    uh
    37:58
    i thought
    37:59
    who do i call who do i call that knows
    38:01
    all about the dark world
    38:05
    of counter intelligence and espionage
    38:09
    and the government and how these things
    38:12
    go down but rick dote and
    38:14
    and it’s pretty cool that i have you you
    38:16
    know on speed dial and here we are
    38:18
    tonight did you uh did you see these
    38:21
    kind of things
    38:23
    uh
    38:24
    brewing did you feel this over the last
    38:27
    few years
    38:29
    absolutely yeah ever since i uh
    38:32
    go i went to work for the institute for
    38:34
    advanced studies
    38:36
    uh back in 1994
    38:39
    uh with at dr puthoff’s laboratory in in
    38:42
    austin texas
    38:44
    um i felt a
    38:48
    a growling within the government
    38:51
    of of
    38:53
    some type of program
    38:55
    that was going to be developed
    38:57
    um
    38:58
    we call them within intelligence
    38:59
    community parallel programs one public
    39:02
    and one
    39:03
    secretive they run parallel
    39:06
    the
    39:07
    the secret program will give a little
    39:10
    bit of information to the public program
    39:12
    but not all of it
    39:14
    they run it
    39:15
    for a number of different information
    39:17
    reasons
    39:18
    and
    39:19
    this uh
    39:21
    this uh
    39:22
    atep um
    39:25
    and um
    39:27
    [Music]
    39:28
    program that is that was run within the
    39:31
    pentagon
    39:32
    sometime around 2012 or so
    39:35
    i felt that when it came public although
    39:37
    some of us knew about it before uh when
    39:40
    it became public i felt that there was a
    39:43
    um
    39:44
    a
    39:45
    a secretive um
    39:48
    program that was gonna about to be
    39:50
    uh branched into the public sector
    39:53
    and that’s exactly what happened now uh
    39:58
    you
    39:59
    okay let’s uh for transparency you have
    40:01
    you have the book skin walkers at the
    40:04
    pentagon
    40:05
    yes
    40:06
    and
    40:07
    have you finished the book
    40:10
    no i have not okay i’ve i’ve gone
    40:13
    through
    40:14
    uh three chapters and then i’ve uh
    40:17
    leafed through and read certain parts of
    40:19
    of of the book but no i haven’t finished
    40:21
    it yet now uh we’re going to get to all
    40:25
    of that uh what you have read um but you
    40:28
    have also
    40:30
    i’m i’m certain uh that you’ve seen the
    40:33
    dust up that is uh that is social media
    40:36
    right now you’ve been following that
    40:39
    oh absolutely i’ve gotten
    40:41
    literally hundreds of emails
    40:44
    uh from people uh twitter uh
    40:47
    facebook
    40:49
    messages uh regarding
    40:51
    regarding the book
    40:53
    and and and
    40:54
    people’s analysis of the book what they
    40:56
    think of the book
    40:57
    and what they think of some of the
    40:59
    people who read the whole book and they
    41:00
    have more of an an analytical uh opinion
    41:04
    of it than i do because i haven’t read
    41:05
    the whole book
    41:06
    but they have a lot there’s there’s
    41:09
    a lot of opinions out there and there’s
    41:11
    so a little a lot of question marks big
    41:14
    question marks about
    41:15
    uh the book
    41:17
    the uh
    41:18
    one of the uh uh phone calls that i got
    41:21
    i mean it was out of the gate
    41:23
    napped through elizondo under the bus
    41:25
    and that my reaction he did not oh yes
    41:28
    he did he did not there’s no way
    41:32
    you’re you’re reading it wrong no no i’m
    41:34
    telling you
    41:35
    and
    41:36
    and i just find uh
    41:39
    i i find all of this very
    41:42
    fantastical is the wrong word because
    41:44
    that means you’re a fan of something but
    41:46
    you know the the derivative of that is
    41:49
    unbelievable right it’s it’s almost
    41:51
    unbelievable
    41:53
    but to
    41:54
    you’ve read some of these statements
    41:56
    right that knapp has thrown elizondo
    41:58
    under the bus you’ve you’ve seen this
    42:00
    repeatedly right yes yes yes and harry
    42:04
    reid and
    42:05
    and others yes yes yes i have
    42:08
    can can everybody be reading this the
    42:10
    wrong way i mean how does everybody just
    42:13
    come to the wrong conclusion or are they
    42:16
    right
    42:19
    i think time will tell but uh
    42:22
    i think they’ve leaped from uh
    42:24
    one platform to another
    42:26
    um
    42:28
    without uh without a lot of uh
    42:31
    analysis well let me let me put it this
    42:34
    way um i don’t know lou
    42:37
    elizondo i’ve read a lot about him i had
    42:39
    a chance to meet him he was in a another
    42:42
    room and i didn’t um i actually have met
    42:46
    harry reid
    42:47
    um i know george knapp very very well
    42:51
    um
    42:53
    there’s a lot of conjecture
    42:56
    that people are telling me because again
    42:58
    i haven’t read the entire book
    43:00
    but there’s a lot of conjecture that
    43:02
    people are telling me
    43:04
    about the book and
    43:06
    and
    43:07
    there’s there’s a person that just sent
    43:09
    me an email not
    43:10
    20 minutes ago 30 minutes ago that says
    43:13
    exactly the same thing you said is uh
    43:15
    you read this book you’re gonna find out
    43:17
    that uh
    43:19
    the the authors
    43:21
    threw
    43:21
    lou under the bus
    43:26
    and this is uh
    43:29
    this is why i feel that this is
    43:31
    important
    43:32
    um
    43:34
    there is
    43:36
    so many moving parts to this story and
    43:40
    it is of course the statements that
    43:42
    harry reid has made about atip and lou
    43:44
    elizondo and of course the the now
    43:47
    uh famous letter uh that harry reid
    43:50
    wrote for lou elizondo there’s that and
    43:54
    and i think that was probably
    43:56
    distributed by george knapp
    43:58
    and we have everything that susan gough
    44:02
    of the pentagon
    44:03
    and all of her statements that were
    44:06
    contradicting lose statements and end
    44:09
    nap statements and ttsas
    44:11
    about ata about atip and what what lou
    44:15
    did or didn’t do for the program
    44:17
    and and the blow up that that had in in
    44:21
    social media and of course the funding
    44:25
    that came from congress that was pushed
    44:27
    through by harry reid
    44:29
    and the book seems to contradict all of
    44:31
    this but this is what we have been fed
    44:35
    uh over the years and now
    44:37
    is susan goff was she correct
    44:40
    now and and all of the supporters and
    44:42
    this is where the disinformation part
    44:44
    comes
    44:45
    comes at me right in my face
    44:47
    all of those supporters that were on one
    44:49
    side are now forced into
    44:52
    flipping
    44:54
    right they have to flip-flop now
    44:56
    and
    44:58
    and if you’re new to this community you
    45:00
    may not be used to doing that
    45:02
    and that’s that’s so many moving parts
    45:07
    well um if i was gonna run a
    45:09
    disinformation or a counterintelligence
    45:11
    program
    45:13
    um
    45:14
    i this this would have been a a pretty
    45:16
    good one to run uh with except exception
    45:20
    of the ending i think that if you look
    45:22
    really carefully and especially people
    45:25
    from within within
    45:27
    the government or within the inside i
    45:29
    used to be on the inside and a lot of
    45:31
    people still say i still work for the
    45:34
    government but
    45:36
    the intelligence officers i spoke to
    45:37
    that looking from the inside out
    45:40
    are saying exactly the same thing that
    45:41
    you’re saying
    45:42
    why is the government saying one thing
    45:45
    one day
    45:46
    and turn around the next day and says
    45:48
    something else and then
    45:50
    the third day provide
    45:52
    information which may be disinformation
    45:55
    to um an author to write a book about
    45:58
    something that we don’t know that’s
    46:00
    whether it’s factual or whether it’s
    46:02
    disinformation so you put an enigma
    46:06
    within this thing
    46:07
    uh within a different disinformation
    46:10
    campaign and it confuses
    46:12
    the public and i don’t know if that’s
    46:15
    what they were trying to do on this
    46:17
    uh but there’s a lot of uh
    46:20
    parts in this that just doesn’t fit
    46:22
    and you you named them right there yeah
    46:24
    yeah yeah absolutely and and that’s just
    46:27
    the tip of the iceberg if we start to
    46:29
    unravel this and just go piece for peace
    46:33
    in a linear sense through the dating of
    46:35
    all of this
    46:36
    it is a flip-flop on a flip-flop on a
    46:40
    flip-flop and now most of the community
    46:43
    if you’re following this or if you’re a
    46:45
    media outlet your head’s on a swivel
    46:48
    you don’t know now uh what was the truth
    46:51
    and what wasn’t
    46:52
    and if if there’s a conclusion to this
    46:56
    it’s
    46:57
    well played
    46:58
    right well done
    47:01
    right well done exactly well done the
    47:04
    objective was met
    47:05
    yes yes now uh uh let’s back up and
    47:09
    examine another aspect of this
    47:12
    uh and we’ll we’ll
    47:14
    dive much deeper after the break
    47:18
    i was pretty surprised to see the
    47:22
    reaction in social media that i did not
    47:25
    only those that are creating the post
    47:29
    right on one side or the other
    47:31
    but the reactions underneath that
    47:35
    i don’t know who’s posting and if they
    47:38
    are even real
    47:40
    right could this all be part of a
    47:44
    disinformation campaign to just
    47:47
    stoke the stoke the coals in this fire
    47:51
    very
    47:52
    very uh possible yes there’s
    47:55
    you know there’s a that’s a good way
    47:57
    back in my days we didn’t have a social
    47:58
    media
    47:59
    but nowadays it’s very easy to spread
    48:02
    disinformation
    48:03
    just just by one person or one website
    48:07
    because people will grasp on to that
    48:10
    and they’ll make their own opinion and
    48:11
    post
    48:13
    post their own opinion on that website
    48:15
    or or that social media and then other
    48:18
    people will jump on that piggyback on it
    48:21
    and you know before a day is out there’s
    48:24
    a thousand different opinions being
    48:25
    spread around social media
    48:28
    the um
    48:30
    uh
    48:31
    the speed
    48:33
    of the way that this got launched
    48:35
    because
    48:36
    there wasn’t a whole lot of publicity
    48:38
    behind this book it was launched on
    48:40
    october 10th it happened to be my
    48:42
    birthday by the way
    48:43
    so i was pretty busy on on that saturday
    48:47
    and sunday uh last weekend but that
    48:49
    being said
    48:51
    in a week look at what has happened it
    48:54
    seems to be a pretty effective
    48:57
    everybody’s buying this book now i
    48:59
    guarantee you that everybody jumped on
    49:02
    amazon uh over the weekend and certainly
    49:05
    probably during this broadcast
    49:07
    and are ordering the book now pretty
    49:09
    pretty astonishing
    49:12
    yes i agree i agree it’s going to be a
    49:15
    a bestseller in no time and
    49:18
    you know i’m just interested in
    49:19
    interested to see what others
    49:21
    just a layperson that’s interested in
    49:24
    the subject but don’t know a lot about
    49:25
    it
    49:26
    that they buy this book and they read
    49:28
    into it what’s their opinion of of the
    49:30
    phenomena will be after they read the
    49:32
    book now uh uh let’s jump back for a
    49:35
    second and uh and if we go back and
    49:38
    examine uh bass and bigelow and asap
    49:42
    and the genesis of all of that
    49:45
    what is very interesting here let’s not
    49:47
    lose sight of this
    49:49
    is j.j abrams just did that four-part
    49:52
    series ufo on showtime
    49:55
    and in episode three i believe it was
    49:57
    epi episode three
    50:00
    um
    50:00
    they specifically the director of mufon
    50:03
    at that time i’ll think of his name here
    50:05
    in his
    50:06
    in a second you may remember he was only
    50:08
    there for like a year a year and a half
    50:10
    uh
    50:11
    right before jan harzan was brought in
    50:13
    um but he said he goes out to him this
    50:16
    is when a bigelow wants to invest in the
    50:18
    mufon right felt a little spooky
    50:21
    and and he goes out to uh bigelow um and
    50:25
    meets with everybody from bass i believe
    50:27
    hal put off was there
    50:29
    um uh and some others but he said that
    50:31
    there were some military types there
    50:33
    again i’m paraphrasing i’m not quoting
    50:36
    directly but one of the things that he
    50:37
    did
    50:38
    say in this documentary which is
    50:41
    astonishing considering
    50:43
    this book is out now saying basically
    50:46
    what he said
    50:47
    and i think a lot of people were taken
    50:48
    aback by his statements he said he went
    50:50
    right at robert bigelow and said hey
    50:52
    where’s this money coming from
    50:54
    who’s your secret investor is this
    50:56
    military money that’s going to be coming
    50:58
    in what’s going on what’s funding bass
    51:00
    what you know how is this
    51:02
    and
    51:03
    and bigelow denied uh military money
    51:07
    in fact he never really said where the
    51:09
    money was coming from
    51:11
    well now this book apparently i haven’t
    51:14
    read it
    51:15
    says that that 22 million went to osap
    51:19
    it didn’t go to atip that atip was
    51:22
    unfunded and the real ufo research
    51:25
    was asap
    51:27
    and that was basically what was said in
    51:29
    episode three that nobody really bought
    51:32
    into
    51:33
    uh you know it was too sensational and
    51:36
    here we have this book coming out again
    51:39
    in in direct contrast to everything that
    51:42
    we have been told over the last three or
    51:43
    four years
    51:45
    yes yes yes uh
    51:48
    well let me go back a little bit um
    51:50
    when in 1994 when i was hired by dr put
    51:54
    off at the institute for advanced
    51:55
    studies in austin
    51:57
    um he had a number of contracts and a
    52:00
    number of things that hal was doing
    52:02
    uh but hal was in
    52:04
    uh
    52:05
    uh i i’m not i’m not gonna give a lot of
    52:07
    prior proprietary information away but
    52:09
    um how was in um in contacts with
    52:13
    robert bigelow back then
    52:15
    and um
    52:17
    i was a i was hired as a field
    52:19
    investigator for
    52:21
    dr put off i worked directly for dr put
    52:23
    off i didn’t work for any of the other
    52:25
    scientists in the laboratory
    52:29
    but hal also had a what i can say a
    52:32
    darpa contract
    52:33
    now for people out there don’t know what
    52:34
    darpa is darpa’s defense advance
    52:37
    a research project agency
    52:40
    it’s a it’s a government agency that
    52:42
    handles all
    52:43
    high level highly classified projects
    52:46
    for the department of defense
    52:48
    darpa doesn’t do anything itself they go
    52:50
    out and contract other laboratories or
    52:53
    other entities to do the work for him
    52:56
    and one of the one of the contracts that
    52:58
    hal had was through darpa
    53:00
    my job was to go out in the field i
    53:02
    traveled all over the world
    53:04
    gathered information gathered
    53:05
    intelligence
    53:06
    for dr put off bring it back let them
    53:09
    analyze it in the laboratories
    53:11
    one of the things we did was we went to
    53:13
    skinwalker ranch back in the 90s
    53:17
    we met with the people at skinwalker we
    53:20
    uh set up cameras did everything what
    53:22
    people are doing today we did this back
    53:24
    when
    53:25
    when it was owned by dr i mean by robert
    53:28
    bigelow
    53:29
    uh but that was the ned’s
    53:32
    portion of of of this investigation some
    53:36
    of the information that we were doing
    53:38
    that we gathered went to knits
    53:40
    and then some of it went to another
    53:42
    agency
    53:43
    on name agency well you can guess what
    53:46
    that other name agency was
    53:48
    and
    53:49
    so
    53:50
    jump from there 1994 and i worked right
    53:53
    up until 2007 for dr put off
    53:56
    jump up till today
    53:58
    a lot of the information and i’m seeing
    54:00
    a lot of the material that is being uh
    54:03
    that
    54:04
    was put out in this book
    54:06
    uh came from
    54:08
    our research back then i mean we did a
    54:10
    lot of research not just there at the
    54:13
    skinwalker ranch but but other locations
    54:17
    and uh that that it included um
    54:21
    anti-gravity psychic research fusion
    54:23
    research
    54:26
    cloaking
    54:27
    invisibility
    54:29
    studies
    54:30
    even time travel
    54:33
    a lot of this stuff is now appearing
    54:36
    today now i’m not saying i was involved
    54:38
    in any of any of what’s occurring today
    54:41
    there are some uh innuendoes about me
    54:44
    being in this book an unnamed
    54:46
    intelligence officer a lot of the that i
    54:48
    can connect to me or or another or
    54:51
    another entity
    54:53
    so a lot of the information that is
    54:56
    being
    54:57
    published in this book
    55:00
    is uh information that i’ve seen before
    55:06
    and uh
    55:09
    when you were uh working for hal
    55:13
    were there discussions about ossap and
    55:16
    what the program was
    55:19
    yeah uh
    55:21
    they had it had different names uh they
    55:23
    you know that now i had it’s the
    55:25
    advanced aerospace weapon systems
    55:28
    applications program at one time it was
    55:31
    the advanced
    55:33
    aerospace
    55:35
    dynamics
    55:37
    something program
    55:40
    the air force had a
    55:41
    another entity called
    55:44
    within the air force scientific research
    55:47
    agency
    55:48
    they had something exactly similar to
    55:50
    that
    55:52
    but all this information was going from
    55:54
    the field
    55:55
    field investigators
    55:57
    to dia
    56:00
    the uh the other part of this
    56:04
    um
    56:05
    is the ufo connection to ossap
    56:09
    and
    56:10
    i
    56:11
    i have poured over the asap documents
    56:14
    that i have access to that pretty much
    56:16
    everybody has today but back i got them
    56:18
    back before they were even released to
    56:20
    the public
    56:22
    and
    56:22
    i
    56:23
    i went over those documents uh with
    56:26
    richard dolan i either sent them to him
    56:29
    or he got him at the same time but we
    56:31
    went page by page
    56:33
    and there was no there wasn’t anything
    56:35
    ufo related in in any of that
    56:39
    and now richard said well
    56:41
    it depends on how you want to read this
    56:43
    well i said i’m looking for the words
    56:45
    e.t or ufo or
    56:47
    or anything like that
    56:48
    there wasn’t anything in ossep about
    56:50
    that now this book is saying that asap
    56:53
    was all about the ufo program
    56:56
    do you remember that when when you were
    56:58
    working with uh dr put off
    57:02
    yes there was parts of it there’s
    57:04
    there’s uh
    57:05
    i think six different parts
    57:08
    of uh of of the of the advanced
    57:11
    aerospace weapons systems uh application
    57:14
    program and um
    57:16
    four of them
    57:18
    four of the parts that you probably read
    57:20
    were all unclassified
    57:21
    then there was two that was classified
    57:23
    one it was classified just secret and
    57:26
    with
    57:27
    uh i think i i’m not sure it had a
    57:29
    caveat or not but the last part the six
    57:32
    part six
    57:33
    was top secret with a special access
    57:35
    program you had to have a special uh
    57:38
    security clearance that one not not the
    57:41
    other five even the secret program
    57:43
    didn’t mention much about
    57:45
    uh
    57:46
    uh ufos but the six the fifth one talked
    57:49
    about other exotic technologies such as
    57:52
    time travel
    57:54
    invisibility cloaking techniques used
    57:58
    scientific formulas for that
    58:00
    this the sixth and final one
    58:03
    that’s the bingo one that’s when you
    58:06
    read it and say bingo everything’s in
    58:08
    this
    58:08
    it had a number of different chapters
    58:10
    pertained to
    58:12
    et technology
    58:14
    reverse engineering of et technologies
    58:17
    um
    58:18
    investigations of of of crash retrieval
    58:22
    objects
    58:23
    uh and it wasn’t just the united states
    58:26
    it was all over the world they had uh
    58:29
    investigators and i wasn’t one of them
    58:31
    but they had investigators that that
    58:34
    where it was able to obtain information
    58:36
    from inside
    58:37
    uh russia or inside china or inside uh
    58:41
    even one that landed on the on the
    58:43
    border of north korea and and there’s
    58:46
    the russia up near vallavasta that area
    58:50
    uh and and they were able to analyze and
    58:53
    put this stuff in there now
    58:55
    did i read number six no but i had
    58:57
    access to some of it
    59:00
    so
    59:00
    a lot of this what you’re seeing today
    59:03
    is only dealing with what’s
    59:05
    available in open sources
    59:08
    in the public domain
    59:09
    it doesn’t pertain to what’s highly
    59:11
    classified that is dug that is
    59:14
    hidden within the defense intelligence
    59:17
    agency or or or some other agency
    59:20
    that you and and i
    59:22
    will will never see
    59:25
    let’s uh let’s uh take a break uh right
    59:29
    here and then when we come back i do
    59:31
    want to talk about
    59:32
    um how this funding and and where it
    59:36
    came from and how it was distributed is
    59:39
    is so important in all of this in the
    59:41
    big picture and of course harry reid is
    59:44
    right front and center with all of this
    59:46
    so uh let’s uh take our break right here
    59:48
    this is fade to black i am your host
    59:50
    will be church tonight rick dodi we have
    59:53
    a huge week coming up on fade to black
    59:56
    tonight rick dodie tomorrow night anjali
    59:59
    is here
    60:00
    wednesday night jacques valley thursday
    60:02
    night linda milton howe
    60:04
    there is no fader night there is no open
    60:07
    lines on thursday i’m yours jimmy church
    60:09
    on the game changer network
    60:11
    and as of october 31st the on x network
    60:16
    we’ll be right back stay with us

  6. rosettasister Says:

  7. rosettasister Says:

    00:07
    calling all beings y’all
    00:09
    [Music]
    00:32
    yeah welcome back to calling all beings
    00:36
    baby i’m your host dj here with my
    00:38
    amazing co-host nathan y’all about to
    00:41
    know him because he’s gonna be on that
    00:42
    ufo podcast with andy everybody’s about
    00:45
    to know
    00:46
    thank you so much it’s such a i’m so
    00:48
    happy that you’re going to be going on
    00:49
    there nathan thanks man all right
    00:52
    and and you know what’s going to happen
    00:54
    it’s about to get real up in here right
    00:56
    um that’s what i heard yeah because we
    00:58
    having the man himself
    01:00
    what we’re talking about man this man
    01:02
    okay
    01:03
    this man you know what you notice i’m
    01:05
    wearing black tonight very professional
    01:07
    yeah because this man operates in the
    01:09
    shadows
    01:12
    you know what i’m saying this man here
    01:14
    for an appetizer in the air force he was
    01:17
    a combat controller the most difficult
    01:20
    school physically and mentally in the
    01:22
    air force bar none sorry pjs i hope
    01:25
    you’re not mad at me and and then after
    01:27
    that he was an afosi special agent so
    01:31
    party people
    01:32
    put your hands together
    01:35
    for new mexico’s own
    01:37
    mr rick
    01:39
    dodie
    01:44
    yes
    01:45
    rick dodie
    01:47
    yes jimmy church okay you had him first
    01:50
    but we got him now baby look at this i
    01:52
    got some air i could i could have i
    01:54
    could have some dark hair i you know i
    01:56
    may not have the cool guitars on the
    01:58
    wall but what i do have is
    02:01
    uh
    02:02
    hey rick so so anyway rick
    02:05
    how you doing it’s so nice to have you
    02:07
    great to have you on rick
    02:08
    great introduction thanks
    02:11
    see we’re bringing it real we’re not
    02:13
    messing around rick we’re not messing
    02:15
    around uh but no we love to have fun we
    02:18
    like to have our um
    02:20
    and you’ll see my voice will calm down
    02:21
    i’ll sound like a normal person
    02:23
    but
    02:24
    but we we do like to have our our um
    02:28
    our ufo talk which we absolutely love
    02:30
    and respect with a touch of humor
    02:32
    because that’s authentic and as soon as
    02:34
    you’re not authentic then uh people like
    02:37
    you can sniff out that somebody’s a fake
    02:39
    and uh listeners also can sniff that out
    02:41
    that aren’t as astute as yourself and uh
    02:43
    that’s not us so with that um it’s it’s
    02:46
    a pleasure to have you
    02:48
    rick first question and we’re gonna pass
    02:50
    it back and forth between my brilliant
    02:52
    co-host and i
    02:53
    so you were a combat controller before
    02:56
    afosi
    02:59
    no no no no i was
    03:01
    i was a combat controller before i went
    03:05
    into osi that’s i was in a regular air
    03:07
    force first
    03:08
    yeah and uh then i got out went to
    03:11
    college
    03:12
    and then i joined osi
    03:15
    okay
    03:16
    okay so that’s that’s that’s the uh yeah
    03:19
    that’s how it happened
    03:20
    but that’s like is that not the hardest
    03:23
    the hardest school the air force has was
    03:24
    combat control
    03:27
    well
    03:27
    yeah it is uh i believe it was uh back
    03:30
    then and but i came in uh back in 1968
    03:35
    69
    03:37
    what
    03:38
    yes you don’t look like you’re that what
    03:40
    are you doing i’m 71 years old believe
    03:42
    it or not yes i am incredible
    03:45
    he looks like he’s i keep in shape
    03:49
    yeah but but back in those days uh
    03:51
    combat controllers
    03:53
    uh we were we were called conte back
    03:55
    controllers but we were uh
    03:58
    assigned to ford air controller units
    04:00
    um
    04:01
    and tactical control flight units
    04:05
    and a lot of our training was army
    04:07
    training
    04:08
    this is 6869 time frame
    04:11
    so the air force didn’t have the program
    04:14
    they have now and special tactics
    04:17
    uh back in those days
    04:19
    back in those days when you go through
    04:21
    went to what the basic training and you
    04:24
    were selected
    04:25
    for a special operations uh assignment
    04:29
    you went to a personal
    04:31
    assessment course at lachlan
    04:33
    and they cons it consisted of pj
    04:37
    combat controllers and tactical
    04:39
    intelligence
    04:40
    pipeline students
    04:42
    and so out of my flight there were 54 of
    04:45
    us
    04:46
    uh and you go through
    04:47
    everyone went through the same
    04:49
    introductory training you had to go
    04:51
    through swim a swim uh uh course
    04:55
    the the uh altitude chamber
    04:57
    um
    04:59
    you carried the rope and the log every
    05:01
    morning you did exercises and that at
    05:04
    the um
    05:05
    fifth week mark is a six week course is
    05:07
    the fifth week mark
    05:12
    i wanted to be a combat controller
    05:14
    because one of my brothers
    05:16
    my brother was in the army but one of
    05:17
    his best friends was a combat controller
    05:20
    and so i wanted to be one of them
    05:21
    everybody else wanted to be pjs
    05:23
    and so they picked you
    05:25
    and you went into one or the other the
    05:28
    tactical intelligence specialists were
    05:30
    all people with
    05:32
    real funny last names and already spoke
    05:35
    intelligent oh you spoke
    05:37
    you knew where they were going got it
    05:40
    chinese russian and and so forth and so
    05:43
    uh that’s how you picked and then from
    05:44
    there you went to the pipeline school
    05:47
    uh you went through uh jump school and
    05:50
    uh and all the different uh courses in
    05:53
    it it took about uh 60
    05:56
    64 66 weeks
    05:58
    of training
    06:00
    yeah i knew it was over a year and
    06:01
    you’re on flight status at that point
    06:03
    you’re on right you’re on flying status
    06:04
    so you’re making i mean i have no doubt
    06:07
    rick if you would have continued in that
    06:09
    career field you would have ended up in
    06:10
    the 24th sts at bragg
    06:15
    i was assigned to a unit in um
    06:19
    just before i got out i got out in
    06:21
    germany uh to uh
    06:23
    in bad tolts
    06:24
    uh to the
    06:26
    612th tax control flight
    06:28
    and that was a predecessor for
    06:31
    was called project rainbow we had pjs we
    06:34
    had tie caps technical air control party
    06:38
    uh and we had uh uh
    06:40
    the weather people the combat weather
    06:42
    people
    06:43
    which was something new uh
    06:46
    and um we kind of got along i mean there
    06:49
    were a few fights here and there you
    06:50
    know with the pjs because they were all
    06:52
    it was always our competition i knew it
    06:55
    yeah yeah yeah yeah always our
    06:57
    competition yeah we were the scarlet
    06:59
    brays and they were the moon room praise
    07:02
    and people would get us mixed up call us
    07:05
    pjs or call them
    07:06
    ccds
    07:08
    people are angry
    07:10
    now let me ask you let me ask a dumb
    07:12
    question as a non-military person what
    07:14
    what is a pj what i don’t know what’s
    07:16
    the difference pj is a pair of rescue
    07:19
    yeah their job was combat rescue search
    07:21
    and rescue uh they would go out and and
    07:24
    search uh for down pilots
    07:26
    uh and and search and rescue on the
    07:29
    ground
    07:30
    uh they were real famous in vietnam
    07:34
    did some remarkable things
    07:36
    a lot of them uh i think there was two
    07:38
    or three medal of honor winners among
    07:41
    pjs
    07:43
    in fact i have one
    07:44
    living uh
    07:46
    not too far from me who uh
    07:48
    was uh one of the
    07:51
    uh pjs who went in and rescued
    07:54
    uh
    07:55
    18 uh two two members of a team up on uh
    08:00
    laos i don’t know if you ever heard of
    08:01
    lima site85 you i’m sure you know i i
    08:05
    don’t know if i’ve heard of that site
    08:06
    but i knew there was things going on in
    08:08
    laos that weren’t supposed to be going
    08:09
    on in laos yeah he was a pg out of uh
    08:13
    play cool but he he went in and picked
    08:15
    up but
    08:16
    just just google lima site85 and you
    08:19
    you’ll you’ll probably read a story okay
    08:22
    that’s what pjs did in combat
    08:24
    controllers we were different although
    08:26
    there were a lot of uh
    08:28
    the same training we went through but
    08:30
    combat controllers our model was first
    08:32
    there
    08:33
    we would be the terminal controllers on
    08:35
    the ground
    08:36
    uh in a combat area we were first there
    08:39
    we would jump in and we would call in
    08:41
    all the other aircrafts
    08:43
    uh we would we would set them up in air
    08:45
    air sectors and we would bring them in
    08:48
    troop drops cargo drops
    08:50
    uh whatever we would set up what we call
    08:52
    a box
    08:54
    uh i’m sure dj knows all about this
    08:56
    box where you you come in on a certain
    08:59
    heading you drop your load and then you
    09:01
    take off and and and then you would hold
    09:03
    you in a particular pattern so we were
    09:06
    we were a form of a combat uh
    09:09
    uh
    09:10
    traffic controller
    09:12
    yep but but we had other missions we
    09:14
    drove fire support missions where we
    09:15
    would go in
    09:16
    and we didn’t have lasers back then now
    09:18
    they have lasers they’d lose a target
    09:20
    and the plane would come in and hit the
    09:22
    target we had grid set patterns where
    09:25
    we’d give them a magrid uh they would
    09:27
    have the same map that we would have
    09:29
    hopefully
    09:30
    right yeah
    09:31
    they would they would
    09:33
    yeah exactly right yeah and so and
    09:36
    that’s what a a combat uh controller did
    09:38
    and then tactical intelligence
    09:41
    they’re i think they’re called um
    09:44
    special reconnaissance now
    09:46
    uh but they would go into areas behind
    09:48
    the line so to speak
    09:50
    and because they were all linguists
    09:53
    and um
    09:54
    and and and operate behind the line and
    09:57
    then they had combat weather they would
    09:59
    jump in with us
    10:00
    uh and and they would be the weather
    10:03
    people on the ground
    10:04
    those are my favorite people and i used
    10:06
    to go on trips rick uh like on the
    10:08
    talons and we’d carry a linguist an
    10:11
    intel linguist type person i always want
    10:13
    to hang out eat dinner with them they’re
    10:14
    like so interesting they’re so not air
    10:16
    crew but they’re the most fascinating
    10:18
    people
    10:19
    but um anyway all right we got to get
    10:22
    into some ufos or people going to start
    10:23
    throwing tomatoes
    10:25
    at their screen right now i want to hear
    10:27
    rip talk about crosstalk
    10:30
    so i could go on about this other stuff
    10:31
    all night this is fascinating oh i we
    10:33
    haven’t we haven’t even scratched
    10:35
    surface i told rick both and nathan his
    10:37
    career was so much i i thought i had an
    10:39
    exciting career flying talons his was
    10:41
    much more exciting than mine but anyway
    10:44
    go ahead nathan go ahead yeah well uh so
    10:46
    yeah as a segue i mean how did you
    10:48
    transition from combat control to air
    10:51
    force osi
    10:52
    how did they come to you did you seek
    10:55
    that out how did that occur
    10:58
    well my father uh i came from military
    11:01
    family
    11:02
    my father was a colonel uh an air force
    11:05
    uh he was a pilot during korea he got
    11:08
    shot down over korea
    11:10
    uh he was rescued behind enemy lines by
    11:12
    the greek army so he loves the greeks
    11:15
    you can could never say anything bad
    11:16
    about the greeks and then um
    11:19
    he never flew again after that i mean it
    11:21
    wasn’t necessarily because he was
    11:23
    injured but he just decided to branch
    11:26
    off so he became a intelligence officer
    11:29
    my father was originally
    11:32
    his family was from massachusetts
    11:34
    that my father went to amherst college
    11:36
    okay
    11:37
    and before he went in the military he
    11:40
    was interested in languages so he
    11:42
    he studied russian
    11:44
    i am hearst that back in those days was
    11:45
    a pretty pretty big language school area
    11:48
    i mean if you wanted to learn in
    11:49
    language or
    11:50
    so he’s he he majored in russian studies
    11:53
    and this is in the 40s when right after
    11:55
    the world war ii
    11:57
    and um so i was a military brat so to
    12:00
    speak my dad went into intelligence
    12:03
    uh he was intelligence his entire career
    12:05
    other than
    12:06
    a few years he he was in as a pilot
    12:09
    and um
    12:10
    he wasn’t osi but he was in uh
    12:13
    in uh
    12:15
    offensive intelligence collectors
    12:17
    uh he spoke fluent russian fluent german
    12:21
    uh spoke some check
    12:23
    we spent a lot of time in germany in
    12:25
    fact we were in germany when
    12:26
    uh kennedy was assassinated oh well he
    12:29
    was we were assigned a v span
    12:31
    and um
    12:33
    so when i uh i got out of the regular
    12:36
    air force i went to college i wanted to
    12:38
    be a teacher
    12:40
    and so i majored in education but then i
    12:42
    also got interested in
    12:44
    political science um a somewhat of a
    12:47
    good debater so i okay i actually
    12:49
    switched majors to political science i
    12:52
    got a degree a degree in political
    12:54
    science with a minor in education and i
    12:56
    tried to teach but then i realized
    12:58
    i didn’t have the patience
    13:01
    uh to teach
    13:03
    it’s hard
    13:04
    i did i did student teaching in a in an
    13:08
    inner city school in tacoma washington i
    13:10
    went to college at pacific lutheran
    13:12
    university which is in tacoma okay and
    13:15
    um
    13:16
    i decided i want to branch out and um i
    13:18
    got a call from a guy well actually a
    13:20
    professor of mine who was a very very
    13:22
    very liberal professor
    13:24
    very liberal
    13:26
    but he gave me a name of a person to
    13:28
    contact
    13:30
    about a job okay and i did and um
    13:34
    the roundabout way i i decided to go
    13:37
    into osi air force officer well it was
    13:40
    an intelligence career field
    13:42
    um
    13:43
    with with initially with dia defense
    13:45
    intelligence agency
    13:47
    and then i went to the osi academy and
    13:50
    the dia school cia
    13:53
    and that’s how i ended up in osa
    13:56
    that was awesome man i told people how
    13:59
    everybody in the air force fears osi
    14:02
    he knows that he’s nodding his head all
    14:04
    right nathan get the ufos before
    14:06
    somebody i’m gonna get shot up man i got
    14:09
    it i gotta get fragged right in front of
    14:10
    rick dodie let’s go we can’t have we
    14:12
    can’t have that so yeah so this week uh
    14:14
    a shout out to one of our our guests in
    14:16
    the audience uh uh james ian doley uh
    14:19
    this was kind of his brainchild to spend
    14:20
    a week in the ufo community the content
    14:23
    creator community and talk a little bit
    14:25
    about crash retrieval and so we’ve got a
    14:28
    lot of shows happening across the the
    14:30
    group of folks that put out content
    14:32
    looking at this topic
    14:33
    and you know so excited to have you on
    14:36
    to kind of get your perspective not only
    14:38
    on
    14:39
    you know kind of what you know
    14:41
    within that space but also we want to
    14:44
    talk a little bit about what’s happening
    14:45
    now too uh but but before we get to now
    14:48
    i think i want to start with the past
    14:51
    in your knowledge as far as you you know
    14:53
    and you know as you’re probably familiar
    14:55
    jacques volley recently published uh his
    14:57
    book trinity and uh
    14:59
    co-written by paula harris
    15:02
    was was trinity or roswell really the
    15:05
    first sort of
    15:06
    craft crash that that you are aware of
    15:11
    well when i was at kirtland air force
    15:13
    base uh
    15:15
    i had the um
    15:17
    opportunity
    15:19
    to be briefed into a special access
    15:21
    program
    15:22
    a project aquarius
    15:24
    and that involved the historical
    15:27
    uh
    15:28
    connection between the united states
    15:30
    government
    15:31
    and uh ets uh
    15:34
    uaps and ufos we didn’t call them uaps
    15:37
    back then with all ufos
    15:39
    or uh identified crafts i mean we knew
    15:42
    what they were so we call them
    15:43
    identified
    15:45
    aerial uh crafts
    15:47
    and
    15:48
    that the briefing that i received in
    15:50
    1979
    15:52
    uh encompassed
    15:54
    crash retrieval
    15:56
    when we united states government
    15:58
    government
    15:59
    first got into the program
    16:02
    and uh the first uh
    16:05
    part of the briefing
    16:06
    uh was roswell
    16:09
    the roswell crash although
    16:11
    actually the craft crashed and corona
    16:13
    new mexico which is north of roswell
    16:17
    and
    16:18
    what we were told
    16:20
    we saw pictures of what we saw a lone
    16:22
    army film a recovery of
    16:24
    is that during the summer of 1947
    16:28
    there were two et crafts flying over new
    16:30
    mexico
    16:32
    and um
    16:33
    these crafts
    16:35
    during an electric storm in new mexico
    16:37
    now dj you’ve been in new mexico you
    16:39
    know how vicious electrical storms can
    16:42
    be
    16:43
    and what we found out what we not me but
    16:47
    our government found out later was
    16:49
    apparently these crafts had never
    16:51
    encountered lightning
    16:52
    and somehow
    16:54
    these during the storm they were struck
    16:57
    by lightning
    16:58
    they collided the two each crafts one
    17:00
    landed near corona new mexico and one
    17:03
    landed west
    17:05
    of socorro new mexico out near horse
    17:07
    mesa
    17:08
    now the corona crash had actually two
    17:10
    sites
    17:12
    one the debris field which was the
    17:13
    antenna portion of the craft
    17:16
    the second crash the second site was
    17:18
    actually the craft
    17:20
    there were actually pictures posted on
    17:21
    the internet some years ago about this
    17:23
    about regarding this craft an
    17:25
    archeological team first found it
    17:28
    found um some alien bodies uh dead dead
    17:32
    bodies in one live alien one of a live
    17:35
    e.t
    17:36
    um
    17:38
    brazil uh
    17:40
    his ranch
    17:41
    was the nation of the debris field the
    17:44
    antenna portion of the craft
    17:46
    which is miles away from the actual
    17:48
    craft
    17:50
    and that was all recovered in the summer
    17:51
    of 1947 by the united states
    17:54
    uh army out of roswell
    17:57
    the second craft
    17:58
    crashed way in a very very remote area
    18:01
    of catcher and county in western new
    18:04
    mexico up in the mountain
    18:05
    that craft site wasn’t found until 1949
    18:09
    by a rancher he was moving his cattle
    18:11
    from a lower grazing area up to a higher
    18:13
    when he found his craft
    18:16
    well the et’s inside the craft
    18:19
    never got out so they were all decayed
    18:21
    inside the craft when he found he didn’t
    18:24
    know what it was
    18:25
    immediately notified
    18:27
    the catchment county sheriff now you
    18:29
    understand that this is remote
    18:32
    in new mexico
    18:34
    phones were very very uh remote
    18:37
    distance from locations it took him two
    18:40
    days to get to a phone to call the
    18:42
    county sheriff
    18:44
    took the sheriff 11 days to get up to
    18:47
    the crash site wow and when he got up to
    18:49
    the crash site he realized
    18:51
    well this isn’t
    18:52
    this isn’t something i don’t i know what
    18:54
    to do with so then he notified them the
    18:56
    state police the state police new mexico
    18:58
    state police they didn’t know what to do
    19:00
    so anyways they notified at that time
    19:02
    the air force the kirtland air force
    19:04
    base and they responded recovered it
    19:07
    and took the craft uh to uh kirlin and
    19:10
    then on to los alamos
    19:12
    los alamos
    19:14
    that’s really interesting
    19:15
    the live et went to los alamos now
    19:19
    contrary to a lot of uh what other
    19:21
    people said
    19:22
    um the first crash
    19:25
    uh that that uh that was taken to
    19:27
    roswell
    19:28
    and part of the craft was flown uh to
    19:31
    write patterson
    19:33
    but the ets in the bodies were flown to
    19:36
    los alamos they needed a
    19:38
    a
    19:39
    a cryogenic
    19:41
    facility
    19:42
    which they didn’t have a right path but
    19:45
    they had at los alamos to store the
    19:47
    bodies
    19:49
    they don’t know what they didn’t know
    19:50
    what they were i mean they didn’t know
    19:51
    if how they were going to decay they
    19:53
    were biologically different than us
    19:56
    and so they needed to store them
    19:57
    someplace and that’s why they went to
    19:59
    los alamos the live e.t la lived from 47
    20:03
    to 1952

  8. rosettasister Says:

    20:03
    to 1952
    20:04
    at los alamos
    20:06
    if i were to ask you to put a percentage
    20:09
    on your
    20:10
    your level of confidence that this is
    20:12
    the case as it actually unfolded what
    20:14
    percentage would you give that
    20:16
    100
    20:18
    it wasn’t just
    20:20
    the briefing that i got because what
    20:22
    number one let me go back a little bit i
    20:24
    was never interested in the subject of
    20:26
    ufos as a kid
    20:28
    i was never interested my father never
    20:31
    spoke about him
    20:33
    my brother on the other hand john is
    20:35
    older than me
    20:37
    he was a uh he was fascinated in the
    20:39
    subject we roomed together we always had
    20:41
    a room together
    20:42
    and uh he would go out and buy true
    20:44
    magazines back that were published back
    20:46
    in the 60s
    20:48
    he also bought the the first book that
    20:50
    george adamski had published
    20:53
    and
    20:53
    and he tried to try to get me to read
    20:55
    these things but i was always hung up
    20:57
    with zane gray i loved westerns and so i
    21:00
    was never interested in the subject
    21:03
    uh nowhere in osis
    21:05
    academy the dia intelligence operations
    21:09
    course or the cia course
    21:12
    was the subject of ufos or ets mentioned
    21:15
    none never not even in any way
    21:18
    whatsoever
    21:20
    so when i got to kirtland and i was
    21:22
    involved in an investigation that
    21:24
    include that involved a strange object
    21:27
    that landed in a remote training area
    21:30
    um i didn’t know what it was of course
    21:32
    my uh initial uh thought was probably
    21:35
    was maybe something foreign maybe a
    21:38
    soviet craft flew in from
    21:41
    mexico or something to that effect
    21:43
    when i sat in this briefing and they
    21:45
    started telling telling us and there
    21:47
    were
    21:48
    other people in this briefing it was the
    21:50
    briefing was done by an air force
    21:51
    colonel when they started telling us and
    21:53
    showing us pictures of recovery film
    21:56
    that that is an older film you could you
    21:58
    could tell it was old about ufos and
    22:01
    about et’s
    22:03
    i just couldn’t believe it i i i sat
    22:05
    there and i thought this was some sort
    22:07
    of a
    22:08
    psychological operations and i thought
    22:10
    they’re going to try to psych us out on
    22:12
    something and then we were to go out and
    22:14
    run some exercise that’s what i thought
    22:16
    yeah but as we got into it
    22:19
    and as we
    22:20
    we got more in-depth
    22:22
    into what we what we were seeing
    22:25
    and the evidence that was presented to
    22:27
    us
    22:28
    i realized my god this is true
    22:31
    now this briefing occurred at the
    22:32
    western uh west west kirtland air force
    22:35
    base and the osi office was on the east
    22:38
    side
    22:39
    i was driving back
    22:41
    and i had to pull off the road and i sat
    22:43
    there for probably 15 to 20 minutes
    22:45
    trying to reconcile what i had just seen
    22:49
    information i just got yeah i still had
    22:52
    some doubts in my mind like you know
    22:55
    is this is there some other type of plan
    22:58
    do they have is this some kind of a
    23:00
    psychological operations
    23:02
    but when i got back to the office i
    23:04
    immediately got
    23:07
    got my tickets punched for a special
    23:09
    access program
    23:10
    meaning we had our own uh uh uh
    23:14
    security uh special access security
    23:17
    terminal in the osi office meaning a
    23:20
    teletype system we could get top secret
    23:22
    info in got it and the operator was was
    23:25
    a civilian
    23:26
    and
    23:27
    you know he would feed stuff to whoever
    23:30
    had access to it
    23:32
    and uh now let me talk about this real
    23:34
    quick and dj will
    23:36
    will understand this just because you
    23:38
    have a high level security clearance a
    23:40
    top secret doesn’t mean you have access
    23:43
    you have to have a need to know
    23:45
    in order to have access to something
    23:47
    okay so there were other osi agents in
    23:50
    the office they didn’t have the same
    23:51
    need to know that i did
    23:53
    so i got i started receiving all these
    23:56
    teletypes top secret code word
    23:59
    uh
    24:00
    teletypes about sightings
    24:03
    and landings all over the world
    24:05
    and with all this
    24:08
    totality of it
    24:09
    put together i realized that what i the
    24:12
    briefing i i received was 100 factual
    24:17
    wow and and there’s no frame of
    24:19
    reference to consider
    24:20
    people it’s funny that everybody’s
    24:22
    calling and texting us when we’re on air
    24:23
    because it’s happening to both me and
    24:25
    rick but um it’s it’s me too
    24:28
    i know i know there’s no frame of
    24:30
    reference to consume this information
    24:32
    rick you know what i mean like you don’t
    24:34
    have a frame of reference to go oh yeah
    24:36
    of course yeah there’s they just landed
    24:38
    down in runway eight i got it right
    24:40
    so everything’s new and rick how many
    24:42
    folks were in that uh
    24:44
    room with you in that initial briefing
    24:46
    was it who were who were getting this
    24:48
    for the first time with you
    24:50
    uh
    24:51
    all of them were intelligence officers
    24:53
    uh
    24:54
    it was myself and one other rsi agent
    24:57
    and i i don’t know exactly number i
    24:59
    would say
    25:00
    probably not more than 20.
    25:02
    okay
    25:03
    like this is where his resistance
    25:05
    training is coming in he learned this at
    25:07
    the ranch i’m just kidding all right so
    25:09
    rick
    25:10
    if you don’t mind we have a we have a
    25:12
    guy from australia that has called in to
    25:15
    ask you a question about luis elizondo
    25:17
    stephen greer so we’re gonna like like
    25:19
    the beings we’re gonna project forward
    25:21
    in time but then we’re gonna return back
    25:23
    to kirtland okay okay okay
    25:26
    here we go grant dj how are you buddy
    25:30
    this guy is such an amazing artist um he
    25:33
    is able to digitally put people’s faces
    25:36
    on other people’s faces it’s like john
    25:38
    travolta movie
    25:40
    it’s nuts so grant hello say hello to
    25:42
    rick dodie and go ahead brother
    25:44
    well firstly dj and nathan thanks for
    25:45
    having me on guys i really enjoy uh you
    25:48
    know the content you guys put out and
    25:49
    rick it’s uh it’s a pleasure to to make
    25:51
    your acquaintance so um so thank you for
    25:53
    taking a question or two from me today
    25:57
    you get a question that’s all you get a
    25:59
    question i’ll limit it to one
    26:01
    so i i i guess the question i had for
    26:03
    you is you know um
    26:05
    based on your background in obviously
    26:08
    you know counterintelligence and the
    26:09
    network that you’ve established over the
    26:11
    years
    26:12
    uh
    26:13
    you i think you’re uniquely positioned
    26:15
    to probably answer this question or at
    26:16
    least opine um so so dr steven greer has
    26:20
    publicly asserted that lou
    26:22
    elizondo uh
    26:24
    is essentially a fear-mongering
    26:26
    disinformation agent and louis louis
    26:29
    lazonda has publicly insinuated that
    26:31
    greer is uh
    26:34
    has hoaxed c5 events for for personal
    26:37
    gain so
    26:38
    i’m interested to get your uh opinion on
    26:42
    the greer elizondo dichotomy that that
    26:44
    exists at the moment who
    26:46
    who who are we to believe
    26:50
    well my own opinion uh
    26:55
    i know steven greer i know him
    26:59
    quite well uh i’ve been acknowledged
    27:03
    i’ve spoke with him many
    27:04
    times i don’t know
    27:08
    i have never met him in person
    27:12
    in person
    27:16
    rick i’m really
    27:18
    rick excuse me for one second i’m really
    27:20
    sorry to interrupt you uh we’re getting
    27:22
    an interruption in your signal is it
    27:24
    possible that you could disconnect and
    27:26
    then and then come back in into the
    27:29
    backstage
    27:30
    uh go ahead and talk real quick let me
    27:32
    see how it’s working yeah i think i’m
    27:34
    losing you yeah yeah if you drop and
    27:36
    then use the same link you’ll come right
    27:38
    back and we’ll put you back on yeah it
    27:40
    seems to work so i apologize
    27:43
    yes please and then just come right back
    27:45
    because without you we have no show okay
    27:48
    okay
    27:51
    great question grant uh so
    27:53
    the unidentified celebrity rev review
    27:56
    grant is a huge fan of theirs and with
    27:59
    good reason and he produces this amazing
    28:02
    i don’t know if it’s cg i don’t know
    28:03
    what the hell it is i just know i can’t
    28:05
    do it i love your content and thank you
    28:07
    thank you for what you do anything that
    28:09
    can add some smiles on folks dolls so if
    28:12
    it uh if it adds a bit of levity to
    28:14
    the topics that are serious then you
    28:16
    know it’s uh it’s i’m happy to do it
    28:19
    yeah we’re all for it uh what time is it
    28:21
    right now is it one time zone throughout
    28:23
    the continent of australia uh so i’m in
    28:26
    melbourne australia and it’s uh it’s
    28:28
    about 11 30 in the morning so i’m just
    28:30
    taking my my mid-morning coffee break
    28:32
    from my uh my day-to-day to uh to have a
    28:35
    chat with you guys i love it i’m so glad
    28:37
    we didn’t keep you awake or something
    28:39
    hopefully uh rick is gonna come back
    28:41
    otherwise more people are to throw
    28:43
    tomatoes
    28:45
    virtual tomatoes which i’m sure grant
    28:46
    could help us cg
    28:48
    turn into a
    28:50
    yeah
    28:50
    turn into a deep fake uh
    28:53
    master class maybe i don’t know
    28:55
    i’d actually be interested in doing a
    28:56
    whole show on sort of the deep fakes and
    28:58
    your thoughts on you know kind of where
    29:00
    we’re going with uh
    29:02
    sort of
    29:03
    journalism information the information
    29:05
    the public sphere you know how we can
    29:09
    what will we be able to do to verify the
    29:12
    sort of truthfulness of
    29:14
    what we see
    29:15
    well it’s it’s it’s actually fascinating
    29:17
    what people can do now and and what uh
    29:20
    kind of got me into uh exploring the
    29:23
    deep fake area just for a bit of fun
    29:24
    really is um i can’t remember his handle
    29:27
    but there’s a
    29:28
    there’s a guy on um on twitter who does
    29:31
    these absolutely incredibly amazing
    29:33
    defects of tom cruise oh yeah and man
    29:36
    they’re just and i think
    29:38
    yeah and justin bieber has actually
    29:40
    fooled recently where he actually
    29:42
    commented on a
    29:43
    on on one of the videos thinking that it
    29:45
    was the real tom cruise so amazing uh
    29:47
    it’s
    29:48
    and and he’s got the voice down pat for
    29:50
    it as well and everything for it but
    29:51
    it’s it’s crazy what what can be done
    29:53
    now with uh machine learning and yeah
    29:56
    it’s
    29:57
    it’s just an exciting future yeah for
    30:00
    sure okay and when we left
    30:02
    rick dodi was talking about i know
    30:04
    stephen greer i don’t
    30:06
    know lou elizondo but
    30:08
    dot dot dot
    30:10
    okay i know of loose background i know
    30:13
    where he worked in the pentagon what he
    30:15
    did
    30:16
    so i can budge what he claimed he did
    30:19
    and where he worked
    30:21
    uh but but that’s not as far as i’m
    30:23
    gonna go i don’t i don’t know
    30:26
    uh
    30:27
    the information that he’s providing is
    30:29
    accurate or not
    30:30
    i i trust stephen and he’s
    30:33
    he’s done
    30:35
    years and years of research into this
    30:37
    area
    30:38
    and so i i trust uh i guess what stephen
    30:41
    said
    30:42
    i’m not going to take one side or the
    30:44
    other at this time
    30:46
    oh my goodness
    30:48
    your career in reality television i’m
    30:50
    just kidding um i i thank you very much
    30:53
    for taking that question rick grant we
    30:56
    will talk to you sir
    30:58
    we’ll talk to you sir because i think
    30:59
    nathan has just built an episode of you
    31:02
    and your work okay we’re gonna do it
    31:03
    yeah very good i appreciate it we’ll
    31:05
    have you we’re gonna have you on i’m
    31:06
    gonna stay right here i’ll be happy to
    31:08
    join you guys anytime thanks thanks and
    31:10
    uh i hope the rest of the show goes well
    31:12
    thank you
    31:12
    thanks guys
    31:15
    so rick i guess like what’s interesting
    31:17
    me about that answer uh
    31:19
    you know kind of what your thoughts on
    31:20
    this so there seems to be like a
    31:23
    over time
    31:25
    a fragmentation of understanding right
    31:27
    so what you just described in your
    31:29
    initial
    31:30
    experience of this was a very
    31:33
    i think clear story you know that you
    31:36
    were given a briefing
    31:37
    there seems to be a great deal of
    31:39
    knowledge that is understood about
    31:40
    what’s going on
    31:42
    and then as we fast forward and time to
    31:44
    where we are now
    31:45
    we’ve got a lot of different competing
    31:47
    narratives that are sort of filling the
    31:49
    the airwaves here so is that a
    31:52
    in your opinion is that a result of us
    31:55
    learning more out more about this than
    31:57
    we knew before or is this something else
    32:00
    is it an intentional mudding of of the
    32:02
    waters of what we really know
    32:05
    well i think it’s uh
    32:06
    a number of number of reasons but
    32:10
    one particular one is over the years
    32:12
    people have taken this subject
    32:16
    they’ve uh
    32:17
    grasped it
    32:19
    whether it’s
    32:21
    in a realm of believability
    32:24
    or
    32:26
    whether it’s
    32:27
    just for their own
    32:29
    uh for their own sake
    32:31
    and they’ve written books about it
    32:33
    they’ve uh
    32:34
    movies and so forth
    32:37
    and
    32:38
    and what happens within the ufo
    32:40
    community is there con there’s
    32:42
    conflicting uh sides to everything
    32:45
    the ufo community
    32:47
    as phil class said once and we know who
    32:50
    phil class was
    32:51
    he was a skeptic
    32:53
    um he said you do more harm within the
    32:58
    ufo community to yourselves than i could
    33:00
    to ever do on the outside and that’s
    33:02
    true there’s so many backstabbers within
    33:05
    the ufo community because
    33:07
    one person will write a book about
    33:09
    something
    33:10
    the other person will write a
    33:12
    conflicting
    33:13
    story about that same book that same uh
    33:16
    the book and and then there’s a rivalry
    33:19
    between the people within the ufo
    33:21
    community yeah and there’s so much um
    33:24
    you know i can i can honestly say that
    33:27
    my
    33:28
    uh 11 years or so being in the
    33:30
    intelligence area and knowing what we
    33:33
    were doing and knowing
    33:35
    what i knew about the ufo phenomena
    33:38
    i can say that probably
    33:41
    easily 60 percent of everything that was
    33:43
    published is absolutely bull
    33:47
    there’s no truth whatsoever about a lot
    33:50
    of the information and
    33:52
    and although i
    33:54
    uh
    33:55
    i am a uh
    33:57
    i like
    33:58
    jack fillet and i like uh harris the
    34:01
    book trinity
    34:03
    uh was a uh well-written book
    34:06
    but the actual event in 1945 if you were
    34:10
    to go and find
    34:12
    the brother brother who is still alive
    34:14
    and talk to him
    34:17
    which some other people have done
    34:19
    they’re going to tell you a different
    34:20
    story
    34:22
    now the state police officer that they
    34:25
    quote in the book i spoke with years ago
    34:28
    when he was still alive
    34:30
    and he emphatically told me
    34:33
    that what the the plane that was crack
    34:35
    crashed was a us army
    34:38
    plane
    34:40
    it wasn’t a a ufo it wasn’t from any
    34:44
    other planet it was an air force or an
    34:46
    army plane
    34:47
    army air force plane it was flying a
    34:50
    mission it was it was testing a very new
    34:53
    type of radar
    34:55
    and so the equipment inside was
    34:57
    classified for the army air force
    34:59
    that’s why the military treated it like
    35:02
    it was like it was now
    35:04
    i’m not gonna
    35:06
    go public and say you know your book is
    35:08
    blown i don’t know what the other
    35:10
    brother said and
    35:11
    and maybe there’s some truth about
    35:13
    something else in there but
    35:15
    uh i know i know the though uh the the
    35:18
    state police officer
    35:20
    um
    35:21
    and that’s what he told me so
    35:23
    uh you can take it whatever way you want
    35:25
    to
    35:27
    you know
    35:28
    rick um i’m going to ask you about other
    35:31
    crashes that you think may or may not
    35:32
    have happened and after that i really
    35:34
    want to kind of get into
    35:36
    you know we can get into a little bit of
    35:38
    nuts and bolts about i’d like to get
    35:39
    your thoughts on area 51 a little bit
    35:41
    obviously i’d like to get your your
    35:44
    thoughts what we’ll get into is a little
    35:46
    bit of the the construct of from an
    35:48
    intelligence standpoint of how you would
    35:50
    compartmentalize this information and
    35:53
    although i know nothing uh legitimate
    35:55
    about mj 12 it seems like the type of a
    35:57
    construct i would make to keep people
    36:00
    who have a need to know from knowing
    36:03
    because the joint chiefs need to know
    36:05
    uh the secretary of defense needs to
    36:07
    know the president needs to know so how
    36:09
    do i keep them from knowing well i
    36:11
    create a program where even though they
    36:12
    have a need to know they’re not going to
    36:14
    know but that’s beside the point um
    36:17
    how many crashes do you think we’ll get
    36:19
    into that and i really want to get your
    36:21
    how you feel about different things
    36:23
    interdimensional versus extraterrestrial
    36:26
    all this kind of stuff but
    36:28
    how many crashes do you think we’ve had
    36:30
    do you suspect or know of which either
    36:35
    well i know of the the the cronin horse
    36:38
    mesa crash i know of the kingman crash
    36:41
    uh that was in the briefing
    36:43
    um
    36:45
    the um
    36:46
    there was one out
    36:48
    in
    36:48
    the middle of uh
    36:50
    nevada it was near uh
    36:52
    it was called the uh
    36:54
    fallen
    36:56
    uh the following crash it was near
    36:57
    fallen naval air station or the bomber
    37:00
    bombing range and this was in the late
    37:02
    50s
    37:03
    uh there was another one in nevada that
    37:05
    was up
    37:07
    near duck water
    37:09
    and some of these haven’t gotten much
    37:11
    publicity i mean we i read about them in
    37:14
    classified documents there have been
    37:16
    some people talk about it i know stan
    37:18
    friedman talk about the fallen case but
    37:20
    he couldn’t find anything in any kind of
    37:22
    uh
    37:23
    uh open literature that talked about
    37:26
    that
    37:26
    uh and then there were there was another
    37:29
    famous one in canada along
    37:32
    a radar site in in the dew line um
    37:36
    distance early warning line uh radar
    37:39
    site uh radar line uh that they were
    37:42
    created in the 50s and 60s there was one
    37:44
    there that pretty
    37:46
    pretty uh
    37:47
    [Music]
    37:48
    pretty interesting case
    37:50
    a a um retired air force uh excuse me
    37:54
    retired
    37:55
    canadian forces air force uh canadian
    37:58
    forces
    38:00
    canadian air force canadian air force
    38:02
    yeah canadian air force
    38:04
    um captain
    38:06
    uh excuse me he was captain at the time
    38:08
    he was re he was retired
    38:10
    i believe lieutenant colonel anyways he
    38:13
    talked about this at a ufo convention
    38:15
    some years ago where one crashed i had
    38:18
    never seen anything in any kind of
    38:20
    classified
    38:21
    but after
    38:23
    i heard this briefing i spoke to
    38:25
    somebody who still worked within dia
    38:27
    and he confirmed to me that yes in fact
    38:29
    that happened in 1959 and it
    38:33
    i can’t remember the name of the radar
    38:35
    site but it was along the dew line in in
    38:38
    northern uh alberta i believe or
    38:40
    saskatchewan
    38:43
    um
    38:43
    [Music]
    38:45
    those are the ones that i actually
    38:47
    would knew about during my time period
    38:50
    in in osi
    38:51
    um
    38:52
    since then i’ve learned about other ones
    38:55
    um
    38:56
    i worked
    38:58
    when i left osi in 1980 and 1994
    39:02
    i went to work for
    39:04
    dr put off in the institute for advanced
    39:06
    studies at austin
    39:08
    i’m sure you you’ll read about that and
    39:10
    some and for that time period
    39:12
    uh we we did private uh research i did a
    39:17
    i was a field investigator for him
    39:20
    i had a darpa clearance
    39:22
    i went out to different locations
    39:24
    and one of the sites most fascinating
    39:26
    site i think the crash site that i’ve
    39:29
    actually visited because
    39:32
    before during my osi career i read about
    39:35
    crashes
    39:36
    but i haven’t i only visited one at one
    39:39
    time
    39:39
    and that was when i was assigned to uh
    39:42
    area 51 but other than that i had not
    39:44
    actually visited the site well in
    39:46
    western south dakota
    39:48
    there was a uh a rancher near spearfish
    39:52
    south dakota
    39:53
    uh which was out western near the
    39:55
    wyoming border
    39:57
    he had found
    39:59
    some debris on his ranch
    40:02
    and so he um

  9. rosettasister Says:

    40:02
    and so he um
    40:04
    he didn’t know what it was
    40:06
    he didn’t really care much about it
    40:07
    because it was in such a remote area
    40:09
    that he didn’t bring it up that but some
    40:11
    years later two years later he told a
    40:14
    son
    40:15
    who was going to take over the ranch
    40:18
    and so a son went out there and looked
    40:19
    at this stuff
    40:21
    and it started
    40:21
    [Music]
    40:23
    working with it trying to drill into it
    40:25
    and he couldn’t do that
    40:27
    and he thought my gosh this has to be
    40:29
    something
    40:30
    out of this world so what he thought it
    40:33
    was a soviet
    40:34
    or a russian
    40:35
    because it had been on the ground for a
    40:36
    long time
    40:38
    he thought well maybe it was a russian
    40:40
    or a soviet satellite that had crashed
    40:42
    and so
    40:43
    anyways it got back to us the institute
    40:46
    for advanced studies i went up there
    40:48
    with another scientist from the from the
    40:50
    institute and when i looked at it and
    40:54
    started analyzing it i realized this was
    40:56
    in fact e.t extraterrestrial nature
    41:00
    so i tried i called the closest air
    41:02
    force base was elsewhere ellsworth air
    41:04
    force base in rapid city or west east of
    41:07
    rapid city and i tried to convince them
    41:10
    to come out there i talked to the osi
    41:13
    uh agent it was a sunday so i talked to
    41:15
    the osage that was on call
    41:17
    he thought it was a coop call at first
    41:21
    like i was especially you know
    41:23
    i’m a retired person i’m i was osi agent
    41:27
    and i started talking to him about osi
    41:30
    information the only osi agent would
    41:32
    know
    41:33
    he goes wow i start believing you well
    41:35
    let me see what i can do
    41:36
    so the next afternoon
    41:39
    the air force came out and recovered it
    41:42
    and
    41:43
    what was what was hal put off doing at
    41:44
    this point though is he kind of like
    41:46
    rick why did you make this he was in the
    41:47
    bathroom
    41:48
    i mean come on rick dodie’s on the phone
    41:50
    man recognized he gave it away well i
    41:53
    know i coordinated all this with him i i
    41:55
    talked to hal and i told hal and he said
    41:58
    i said there’s no way i could
    42:00
    put this into a vehicle it was a big
    42:02
    object oh wow and transport it back it
    42:05
    wasn’t it wasn’t as small was there
    42:07
    corrosion was there any corrosion on it
    42:09
    no not a bit of corrosion it’s amazing
    42:12
    not a bit of corrosion
    42:13
    uh
    42:15
    um
    42:18
    hieroglyphics although i i think they’re
    42:20
    more there were more characters like
    42:23
    chinese characters that were written on
    42:25
    about other they were chinese because it
    42:26
    was analyzed later i took a lot of
    42:29
    pictures a lot of photographs myself and
    42:31
    this other scientist
    42:33
    we managed to take a little piece of
    42:35
    something that had broken off now that’s
    42:37
    amazing because
    42:39
    you couldn’t drill into this thing
    42:40
    because
    42:41
    the rancher’s son tried he tried to cut
    42:44
    it with saws
    42:46
    rip saws he couldn’t even make a dent
    42:48
    into it but we got a piece we took back
    42:50
    to the laboratory and we and we analyzed
    42:53
    it but
    42:54
    i think the uh you know there are some
    42:56
    uh laws federal laws under title 50
    43:00
    united states code and that that we
    43:03
    couldn’t keep this
    43:04
    we would have had to notify the
    43:06
    government come on i did what i thought
    43:09
    why are we following i’m just kidding go
    43:11
    ahead that i did what i i you know i
    43:14
    know a lot of people criticize me i
    43:15
    talked to other people about this uh
    43:17
    years ago and they said you’re oh my god
    43:20
    you should have put it in the back of
    43:21
    there’s no way i could have lifted this
    43:23
    thing i mean no i wouldn’t either i mean
    43:24
    you got to do it you know what’s legal
    43:27
    because you could be held responsible
    43:28
    and that’s not something that you want
    43:30
    to mess with exactly
    43:31
    um so i have to go to area 51 um rick
    43:37
    there’s a lot of obviously you’ve heard
    43:40
    you know years worth of talk about this
    43:42
    um if there were
    43:44
    a craft
    43:46
    um is that a place that you think that
    43:49
    uh the government would keep a whole
    43:51
    craft or do you think it would have been
    43:53
    given over to a private contractor like
    43:56
    lockheed martin or bigelow what do you
    43:58
    think the government would do if it had
    44:00
    a whole craft would it be at an area 51
    44:04
    no it would be an area 51
    44:06
    it would be taken there at least during
    44:08
    my time period and even after that
    44:12
    uh
    44:13
    you know i worked at area 51 on two
    44:15
    occasions i was tdy there
    44:17
    um
    44:18
    covering for an agent that who had uh
    44:20
    got real sick and unfortunately passed
    44:22
    away
    44:23
    so i was tdy there on two occasions
    44:26
    i was briefed into a lot of programs not
    44:28
    everything i wasn’t briefed into
    44:29
    everything uh but i was briefed into a
    44:31
    lot of different programs i knew what
    44:34
    was there i knew we needed to have uh
    44:36
    crafts that we were studying that we
    44:38
    obtained the exotic crafts that were
    44:40
    from uh
    44:42
    out of this world
    44:44
    um we had uh ets
    44:46
    uh
    44:48
    and so we
    44:49
    we
    44:50
    air force
    44:52
    had the air force scientific
    44:53
    laboratories there
    44:54
    um
    44:55
    san diego national laboratories had a
    44:57
    facility there los alamos had a facility
    45:00
    there skunk works had a facility there
    45:04
    now
    45:05
    when we talk about area 51 we’re talking
    45:07
    about one area groom lake which was back
    45:09
    then
    45:10
    death 3 air force test flight center
    45:13
    and that’s official name for it as you
    45:15
    would know dj uh but we also had tonopah
    45:19
    tanapa air force base
    45:21
    which was even more secretive i think
    45:24
    at
    45:25
    for than than area 51 because very few
    45:29
    people knew
    45:30
    the operating locations on tunnel paw
    45:34
    now tuna paw
    45:35
    and area 51 or groom lake was all
    45:38
    contained in the nellis uh test training
    45:42
    range
    45:43
    and
    45:45
    within that range we they had
    45:48
    a a facility called wellington
    45:51
    wellington test center
    45:53
    jamestown test center they were very
    45:56
    highly classified locations because this
    45:59
    is such a large area that we’re within
    46:01
    that test range they were doing some
    46:04
    extraordinary
    46:06
    testing
    46:07
    of exotic technology in these different
    46:09
    areas
    46:11
    such as
    46:12
    energy weapons time travel
    46:15
    um
    46:17
    inertia
    46:19
    anti-inertia systems or anti-gravity
    46:21
    systems they call it an anti-inertia
    46:24
    and then
    46:26
    on top of all that
    46:27
    you had a nevada test site
    46:30
    or the which is now called the nevada
    46:31
    national security site where they
    46:34
    detonated nuclear weapons and tested
    46:35
    nuclear weapons back in the 50s 60s 70s
    46:38
    and 80s in the early 90s
    46:40
    there were highly classified facilities
    46:43
    used by
    46:44
    lockheed by general dynamics by
    46:47
    tektronix by e-systems all these
    46:50
    different
    46:52
    companies contract companies
    46:54
    they had their facilities there so there
    46:56
    was a lot of testing of et technology
    47:00
    done there also
    47:02
    so if i and i’m going to turn it over to
    47:03
    nathan because he get he gets the next
    47:06
    we got to share rick i mean i can’t just
    47:08
    you know
    47:11
    the question i would ask you like like i
    47:13
    said before your level your percentage
    47:15
    of confidence that there was in fact
    47:17
    craft brought somewhere on that groom
    47:20
    lake test range is what percentage
    47:35
    let me say this
    47:37
    i knew where
    47:39
    there was a there’s a there’s a cup
    47:41
    there’s
    47:42
    differences between
    47:43
    lazar’s story about s4
    47:46
    and what’s actually there
    47:48
    s4 was an underground facility under s2
    47:53
    s2 was a facility inside the mountain
    47:57
    underground at papua’s lake i’d been
    48:00
    there i was at s2
    48:03
    there you go
    48:04
    i was never at s4 i was never under
    48:07
    there i didn’t have a clearance to go
    48:09
    under there so i don’t know what’s under
    48:11
    the ground there
    48:13
    but i know s2 which was administrative
    48:15
    control center for s4
    48:18
    been there several times
    48:20
    uh you had to have a special security
    48:22
    clearance
    48:23
    exchange badge system
    48:25
    uh to get to get in in there and then
    48:28
    underground you had to even have a
    48:30
    different type of
    48:31
    entry control system to get there well
    48:34
    i can tell you that
    48:36
    i never saw anything at s4 so i don’t
    48:39
    know what’s down there
    48:41
    but
    48:42
    i saw a lot of things flying
    48:46
    well angelo seijin would take a jeep
    48:49
    we all had at cj7 jeeps back in those
    48:52
    days assigned to us we could go anywhere
    48:55
    out there uh we had badges to get in
    48:58
    almost any place
    48:59
    we would go out
    49:01
    and on security patrol so to speak is
    49:03
    what we would call it checking your
    49:05
    different areas i mean we they had air
    49:08
    force security police there
    49:10
    they were debt three out of nellis
    49:12
    and they had
    49:13
    uh and they were had high-level security
    49:16
    clearances they guarded the internal
    49:18
    controllment area the outside perimeter
    49:22
    was all done by whack and hot during
    49:24
    that time period there’s civilian
    49:26
    security
    49:27
    we would go out and drive around and we
    49:29
    go out to the test area where they would
    49:31
    do the flying and we would we would sit
    49:33
    there for hours watching at night these
    49:36
    exotic planes fly or or some kind of
    49:38
    crash flying
    49:40
    and they would fly
    49:42
    probably hundreds of miles an hour and
    49:44
    stop
    49:46
    and do all these weird things now
    49:49
    as dj can can swear to it i i’ve been in
    49:52
    many many airplanes
    49:53
    i jumped out of many many airplanes i
    49:55
    flew many different type in airplanes
    49:59
    a pilot couldn’t withstand the force the
    50:02
    g-force by stopping going 100 miles an
    50:05
    hour right is that not right i i would
    50:07
    say that’s accurate to come to a
    50:08
    complete stop you would uh you’d
    50:10
    probably get splattered if you weren’t
    50:12
    uh
    50:13
    i mean if it’s an immediate stop i would
    50:15
    say no yeah yeah and that’s what they
    50:17
    were doing
    50:18
    and then one landed close to us once and
    50:21
    it was an oval-shaped object um
    50:24
    it landed i would say maybe a mile maybe
    50:27
    a little over a mile from us on a flat
    50:29
    area
    50:30
    uh vehicles went up to it um
    50:34
    and they were obviously it was having
    50:36
    some
    50:37
    sort of a problem
    50:39
    and eventually
    50:40
    uh they were able to get it up back up
    50:42
    in the air
    50:44
    and what i saw
    50:46
    it wasn’t a conventional craft uh one a
    50:49
    conventional fly
    50:52
    drones back in those days drone
    50:55
    technology was highly classified and i
    50:57
    saw many many uh classified drone
    50:59
    projects going on in fact i was a
    51:01
    counterintelligence officer
    51:03
    for one particular project uh involving
    51:06
    drone technology so i know what the
    51:08
    drones were back in those days and these
    51:10
    weren’t drones in fact back in those
    51:13
    days the order in order to fly a drone
    51:16
    you’d have to have a a control aircraft
    51:19
    take off and those control aircrafts
    51:21
    were uh
    51:23
    135s they would fly
    51:26
    and they would be controlling the drones
    51:28
    in the air they couldn’t do it on the
    51:29
    ground back in those days yeah a lot
    51:31
    line of sight want to say yeah
    51:33
    exactly line of sight
    51:35
    exactly and so and a lot of these plane
    51:38
    a lot of these drones were being
    51:39
    launched
    51:40
    from plane from other planes uh
    51:43
    135s or 137s um
    51:46
    and and they even had the old um i can’t
    51:50
    remember
    51:51
    they were i think they were the box cars
    51:53
    a c 119 oh like a 119 yeah yeah 119 yeah
    51:57
    that they had a platform under it
    52:00
    and there were
    52:01
    two or four engine props i’m not sure
    52:03
    whatever yeah
    52:04
    cops would take off
    52:06
    and launch these drones
    52:09
    at a you know a couple thousand feet
    52:11
    and that’s how they would test drones so
    52:14
    we knew when drones were being tested
    52:16
    because we we all saw saw the control
    52:18
    aircraft
    52:19
    but these weren’t controlled aircrafts
    52:20
    and there were 90 control aircrafts now
    52:23
    some of what we were seeing uh i can
    52:25
    trace to the f-117 because we were there
    52:29
    during that time period the early 80s i
    52:31
    mean i saw the one i saw it on the
    52:33
    ground i saw the 1 17 or the prototypes
    52:36
    because they had three different
    52:37
    prototypes
    52:39
    i knew they what they were doing there
    52:41
    the aurora i saw some other planes that
    52:44
    were being tested that had never that
    52:47
    were never made into production
    52:49
    but
    52:52
    i think without a doubt that there were
    52:55
    uh
    52:56
    ufos or et crafts uh contained at area
    52:59
    51.
    53:01
    that’s 80
    53:03
    yeah okay good that’s great um so thank
    53:07
    you i want to i want to drift through a
    53:08
    little bit into the speculative
    53:10
    territory so
    53:11
    uh
    53:13
    in in in your opinion uh
    53:16
    because there’s a lot of debate about
    53:17
    this
    53:18
    were these crashes
    53:21
    gifts
    53:22
    or some combination of the two because
    53:24
    we’ve heard stories where
    53:26
    uh you know there’s been debris fields
    53:28
    as you’ve said and then there are other
    53:29
    stories we’ve heard where
    53:31
    it’s almost like they just sort of left
    53:32
    it with the with the keys right in the
    53:34
    engine the engine running you know the
    53:36
    lights are still on and it’s just been
    53:37
    landing and you know you can go ahead
    53:38
    and take it so what’s your opinion on
    53:40
    this uh debate is it is it a mixture of
    53:42
    the two or one the other
    53:45
    well i can give you what i know
    53:47
    factually
    53:48
    is that
    53:49
    it’s even better
    53:52
    i know for a fact that
    53:53
    some of these crafts uh recoveries
    53:57
    uh had uh
    53:58
    dead ets in them so
    54:01
    uh they crashed and and and i know that
    54:04
    for a fact i read about them i saw the
    54:06
    photographs
    54:07
    uh i can tell you that for a fact now
    54:10
    there are some occasions i know of two
    54:12
    occasions
    54:13
    that i did personal research into
    54:16
    where they found crafts on the ground
    54:19
    and like you said they were just there
    54:21
    they left them now one one was
    54:24
    down in arizona now near yuma um
    54:28
    the person uh that
    54:31
    initially told the story wendell stevens
    54:34
    i’m sure you you know who wendell
    54:36
    stevens is
    54:37
    a very good friend of mine
    54:39
    window had uh pictures and i did a whole
    54:42
    presentation on it i think there’s a
    54:44
    video out there too of that really yeah
    54:46
    there’s a human video talking about
    54:49
    that but not not of the actual finding
    54:51
    of the crap but by him talking about it
    54:54
    talking about the team that went out
    54:55
    there and recovered it from uh
    54:59
    holloman i think it was luke air force
    55:01
    base
    55:02
    yeah luke and uh
    55:04
    what’s the one
    55:05
    and then um
    55:08
    the uh
    55:10
    uh
    55:12
    davis
    55:13
    yeah yeah uh went down and recovered it
    55:16
    and uh this thing was just on in the
    55:18
    desert found by some hikers
    55:21
    uh eventually
    55:23
    the sheriff got there and and the air
    55:25
    force got there and
    55:27
    they actually were
    55:29
    they could fly it you know how to fly it
    55:31
    so they went onto big transport vehicle
    55:34
    and i think
    55:36
    davis mothman was the closest base
    55:39
    uh that’s in tucson yeah
    55:42
    to get it up to tucson and to
    55:44
    davis-monthan and i don’t know whatever
    55:48
    happened to it and dave wendell stephen
    55:50
    thinks
    55:51
    it would eventually got to area 51 but
    55:54
    uh i don’t know that they ever learned
    55:56
    how to fly it so
    55:58
    that’s that’s one
    56:00
    actual
    56:01
    et craft that i know they just found
    56:03
    without any bodies in
    56:05
    amazing so
    56:07
    so that would fit that nathan maybe what
    56:09
    you’re talking about yeah that certainly
    56:11
    sounds like it or a drone maybe it was
    56:12
    doing surveillance
    56:14
    on their part and then it crashed for
    56:16
    like
    56:17
    electromagnetic interference or you know
    56:19
    actually just you know uh uh lightning
    56:21
    hit it and it and it reacted you know
    56:23
    emi can just
    56:25
    do some serious damage to something well
    56:28
    let me throw this in when i was
    56:30
    put off
    56:32
    one of the things that he was trying to
    56:33
    work on uh trying to research in
    56:36
    and there’s conjectures all the time
    56:40
    people saying wait a minute these people
    56:42
    fly
    56:43
    hundreds of light years or
    56:45
    thousands of my
    56:47
    light years or whatever from another
    56:48
    planet into our solar system and crash
    56:51
    how can that happen
    56:53
    well dr put off
    56:55
    did a number of different papers
    56:57
    explaining
    56:58
    that our atmosphere
    57:02
    could be distinctly different than where
    57:04
    they came from
    57:05
    i mean they leave an atmosphere that is
    57:08
    entirely different from ours they fly in
    57:11
    space which is everybody
    57:14
    spaces same thing
    57:16
    come into our
    57:18
    atmosphere with our
    57:20
    gravity and our inertia systems and so
    57:23
    forth
    57:24
    they could experience a whole lot of
    57:26
    problems that would cause them to crash
    57:29
    such as lightning and and wind shear and
    57:32
    all sorts of different things that they
    57:33
    wouldn’t have ever encountered in their
    57:35
    own in their own planet so just i just
    57:38
    throw that out there no it’s a good
    57:40
    theory i guess what i’m curious to get
    57:42
    your take on
    57:43
    with respect to this is that
    57:46
    they’re
    57:48
    we’re clearly dealing with a very intel
    57:50
    a high intelligence right so
    57:53
    what is it
    57:54
    in your mind what kind of process do you
    57:56
    go through
    57:58
    to verify the truthfulness of what we
    58:01
    are seeing and discovering because
    58:03
    you know if you’re playing if someone’s
    58:05
    playing a game with you and they know
    58:07
    way more than you do about
    58:10
    the nature of reality or they have
    58:12
    mastery over certain technologies or
    58:14
    we’ve heard about you know that they
    58:16
    could have
    58:18
    uh some degree of control over even our
    58:20
    our the way we think you know if if you
    58:22
    if you take all those things into
    58:24
    consideration
    58:25
    does that make you question
    58:27
    kind of what what you see and if it does
    58:30
    what are the things that eliminate we
    58:32
    lost rick entirely
    58:34
    oh my goodness this is terrible i’ll
    58:35
    take that question we’re going to repeat
    58:37
    that question yeah why don’t you take
    58:38
    that question the nexus
    58:40
    i’m just kidding
    58:42
    no
    58:43
    it’s fascinating
    58:44
    he’s he’s yeah he’s he’s phenomenal i
    58:46
    mean this like he is giving us a lot of
    58:50
    interesting things that uh i i hadn’t
    58:52
    heard him talk about so i’m very
    58:54
    gratified that that he’s sharing a lot
    58:57
    uh i i kind of like what i don’t know
    58:59
    what you think nathan i kind of would
    59:01
    like to get his thing you know we don’t
    59:03
    want to keep him all that long because
    59:05
    now it’s been an hour at this point uh i
    59:07
    would like to get his take on on tic tac
    59:09
    and what what thoughts went through his
    59:11
    head when he saw the performance of that
    59:14
    and the interaction i would like to get
    59:16
    his thoughts on whether what he what
    59:17
    does he think about if possibly some of
    59:20
    these intelligence were were born here
    59:22
    and originated here and are appearing
    59:25
    and disappearing which we we in the
    59:27
    community think that’s a a very very
    59:29
    plausible hypothesis
    59:31
    um and i was going to mention pressure
    59:33
    is what what he was talking about um
    59:35
    when they come into our atmosphere 14.7
    59:38
    psi of pressure at
    59:40
    at sea level that hi rick i’m back
    59:43
    what’s going on i got high speed
    59:45
    internet here too yeah something fishy
    59:47
    is happening here rick well uh
    59:49
    somebody’s probably fearing man
    59:51
    you probably got the gist of my question
    59:52
    but i guess you know as someone who has
    59:54
    a background in intelligence and and
    59:56
    discerning truthfulness
    59:58
    what are the things that you use to
    60:00
    apply to this topic that help you get to

  10. rosettasister Says:

    60:00
    apply to this topic that help you get to
    60:03
    a place where you have a high degree of
    60:05
    confidence in what it is that you’re
    60:06
    seeing and hearing uh about ufo
    60:10
    well
    60:12
    during my time man i learned a lot of
    60:13
    scientifics i’m not a scientist
    60:16
    i i am a uh uh i do teach math online so
    60:20
    i i don’t something about mathematics
    60:23
    but i i don’t know anything about the
    60:26
    celestial navigation or mechanics or
    60:28
    anything like that uh
    60:30
    so
    60:31
    i judge a person by
    60:34
    uh
    60:35
    indicators one of the things we learned
    60:38
    in uh in training
    60:40
    um is uh how to interrogate yeah
    60:43
    interviews and interrogations distinctly
    60:46
    different interviewing somebody
    60:47
    interrogating somebody you watch your
    60:49
    mannerisms
    60:50
    uh and so forth so i’m a pretty good
    60:53
    judge of characters i looked at person
    60:54
    in their eyes if they can’t maintain eye
    60:57
    contact with me
    60:58
    um
    60:59
    i’ve heard stories
    61:01
    that were
    61:02
    clearly out of this world so to speak
    61:05
    and some of them
    61:07
    what i’ll do is i’ll listen to every
    61:09
    anybody at ufo conventions or
    61:11
    people sending me emails i’ll listen to
    61:13
    them and then i judge them by number one
    61:16
    their character what i can determine the
    61:18
    character and personality and then also
    61:20
    by the information the subject matter
    61:23
    they’re giving me some of the
    61:24
    information i hear is just
    61:27
    total baloney i mean what they claim
    61:29
    they saw or did uh i’ll just say well
    61:32
    you know i wasn’t there you saw whatever
    61:34
    you did i i can’t really make a judgment
    61:36
    on that
    61:37
    um if it’s at a ufo convention
    61:40
    uh people
    61:41
    most most of these people
    61:44
    uh will be abductees or
    61:47
    contactees they call them now and
    61:49
    they’ll come and they’ll talk to me well
    61:51
    i had never been briefed in any programs
    61:54
    regarding abductees
    61:57
    until one i i was i didn’t handle one i
    62:00
    could talk about that a little bit later
    62:02
    and so
    62:03
    uh i believe that they’re
    62:05
    now i believe at the time and but now i
    62:08
    believe that there’s something to the
    62:09
    abduction
    62:11
    phenomena definitely something to it and
    62:14
    i believe a lot of people and i and i
    62:16
    really apologize to a lot of people
    62:18
    over the years that i didn’t believe
    62:20
    i was wrong i mean i know everything
    62:23
    uh and and i believe a lot of what i
    62:26
    heard before
    62:27
    uh i i understand what they were telling
    62:30
    me that was was truthful
    62:32
    so that’s how i judge people and i judge
    62:34
    most of it on
    62:36
    what people tell me like for instance
    62:38
    i they they claim that they saw a
    62:40
    aircraft they saw this ufo flying and it
    62:44
    had these lights on it and well
    62:47
    you know i’m a trained air traffic
    62:49
    control specialist
    62:51
    leaving a i know the lighting systems of
    62:53
    every single aircraft i know where the
    62:56
    red light is and the
    62:57
    and what they’re telling me is they’re
    62:59
    describing
    63:00
    an faa lighting pattern of an aircraft
    63:02
    and i tried to tell them that i said
    63:04
    well you know what if a ufo comes to our
    63:07
    planet they’re not going to obey our faa
    63:09
    rules
    63:10
    i mean it’d be convenient if they would
    63:12
    it would be nice i mean
    63:14
    it would be nice that’d be nice so i’m
    63:17
    saying yeah you know i don’t think what
    63:19
    you saw was in fact a ufo i think i
    63:21
    think it was probably a
    63:23
    a regular aircraft uh
    63:26
    maybe an air force plane or or a
    63:29
    civilian
    63:31
    airliner and so i’ll judge him in that
    63:34
    respect and so and then there’s some
    63:37
    that you just can’t
    63:38
    some people
    63:40
    will uh like one particular person i’m
    63:42
    not gonna name the person
    63:44
    i do shows a gaia i guess you know that
    63:47
    yeah i did not know that i have about 20
    63:50
    episodes on gaia cosmic disclosure with
    63:53
    emery smith
    63:54
    um
    63:55
    and there’s another person there that
    63:56
    does some shows
    63:58
    and
    63:59
    you know he has a lot of claims about
    64:01
    being this and that and and and a secret
    64:04
    space program
    64:06
    um
    64:07
    he passed a polygraph examination he
    64:09
    passed a stress test uh maybe he’s
    64:12
    telling the truth i just don’t know
    64:14
    about any of this so
    64:15
    i can’t judge people anymore uh like i
    64:19
    like i used to i mean i go to ufo
    64:20
    conventions and listen to people and i
    64:23
    want to believe them
    64:25
    and a lot of people tell me the truth
    64:26
    they they they tell me this objects
    64:29
    flying around it didn’t have any lights
    64:31
    on well number one
    64:34
    that’s a good indicator that it was
    64:36
    something probably i didn’t know because
    64:39
    you can’t you can’t uh excuse me
    64:43
    you can’t uh fly a a plane
    64:46
    unless it’s under a certain altitude
    64:48
    without a lighting system at night you
    64:49
    just can’t do that right you i mean you
    64:51
    can but you’re gonna you’re very
    64:53
    dangerous for some problems you’re gonna
    64:55
    have f-16s chasing you so somewhere so
    64:58
    ryder
    64:59
    yeah exactly
    65:00
    so
    65:01
    uh that’s how i judge people to answer
    65:03
    your question no that’s great well i
    65:05
    know we want to transition to
    65:07
    the recent stuff dj but really quickly
    65:10
    do you feel like we’re we’re kind of
    65:12
    disentangling this though from the past
    65:14
    like
    65:16
    as you mentioned like the story seemed
    65:18
    to be very clear and then it kind of got
    65:20
    pretty
    65:21
    as the community
    65:23
    like allowed its imagination to go to
    65:25
    run wild and now we are left kind of
    65:29
    trying to put it back together and and
    65:31
    form a coherent story do you feel like
    65:33
    that there’s been a lot of damage from
    65:36
    the intervening years and
    65:38
    we’re now trying to set the right record
    65:40
    straight and we’re doing we’re kind of
    65:41
    restoring the trust with the people and
    65:44
    telling what’s really going on
    65:47
    well absolutely and you know i have to
    65:50
    blame
    65:51
    um
    65:53
    us intelligence for a lot of this
    65:56
    because and me me being being one of
    65:58
    them uh
    65:59
    there were a lot of uh programs that we
    66:04
    uh we did back in the
    66:06
    late 70s and 80s
    66:08
    that was disinformation we call them
    66:10
    counterintelligence operations sure but
    66:12
    we just informed the public public we
    66:14
    did we did some things that i’m not i’m
    66:16
    not proud of i can admit to it
    66:21
    in disinforming uh the paul benowitz
    66:23
    case
    66:24
    and and others um
    66:26
    trying to convince a person one way to
    66:28
    the other convincing them that what they
    66:30
    were seeing
    66:32
    was in fact ufo when it was really a
    66:34
    classified air force project or or vice
    66:37
    versa convincing it was air force
    66:39
    project when it was actually something
    66:41
    we didn’t know about yeah so we didn’t
    66:42
    want
    66:44
    uh a a um upset public
    66:48
    or a panic public so uh the government
    66:51
    is responsible and that wasn’t just me
    66:53
    there were thousands of other uh
    66:55
    intelligence officers doing the exact
    66:57
    same thing that i was doing so uh i
    66:59
    think that’s uh we put we put a a wrench
    67:03
    in there a monkey wrench in there and
    67:05
    and we we would be responsible for some
    67:07
    of that but on the other hand the ufo
    67:10
    community did it themselves sure by
    67:13
    writing books uh about things that are
    67:16
    absolutely not true
    67:18
    and
    67:19
    putting uh fear in the public
    67:22
    uh although
    67:23
    um i don’t wanna sound dramatic now or
    67:27
    or sound uh upset anybody but there are
    67:30
    things out there that i
    67:33
    witnessed
    67:34
    or i read
    67:36
    i would briefed into
    67:38
    that scared me i mean very i mean really
    67:41
    really scared me and believe me
    67:43
    i don’t scare easy
    67:45
    i believe that i 100 believe that i
    67:48
    jumped into an area i jumped into an
    67:51
    area that there’s four of us that jumped
    67:53
    into and
    67:54
    it was
    67:55
    in back in my combat control days and it
    67:58
    was very you know very dangerous anyways
    68:00
    getting off that but
    68:01
    you know
    68:02
    that really does scare me the things
    68:04
    that i read and i would i don’t want to
    68:06
    repeat some of the stuff is still
    68:08
    classified some of the things that
    68:10
    happened
    68:11
    that that i was there and witnessed is
    68:14
    are still classified so there are things
    68:16
    out there that uh
    68:17
    be careful what you ask for because of
    68:19
    course
    68:20
    yeah
    68:21
    i’m with you and we we wouldn’t ask you
    68:23
    to to violate anything i’m kind of
    68:25
    curious to get your perspective on
    68:28
    there’s a lot of theories now
    68:31
    that are based upon
    68:33
    vehicles that we see in the air and i’ve
    68:35
    kind of stopped using the term flying in
    68:37
    some instances particularly with tic tac
    68:40
    because the way that it operates it
    68:42
    doesn’t seem to interact with the air
    68:45
    the way that uh bernoulli’s theorem
    68:47
    would dictate
    68:48
    uh newtonian physics would dictate uh
    68:51
    you know first and third laws of motion
    68:53
    these types of things so i’m not sure
    68:55
    that they’re flying but they’re moving
    68:57
    in our airspace
    68:58
    um
    68:59
    because of the fact that some of these
    69:00
    are going underwater
    69:02
    where are you on the hypothesis that
    69:04
    maybe they are from here and are already
    69:07
    here and are making themselves appear or
    69:10
    making themselves known when they want
    69:12
    to
    69:13
    and then disappearing or going into into
    69:16
    another medium in the ocean when they
    69:18
    want to what are your thoughts about
    69:20
    that hypothesis
    69:22
    well there are a lot of cases out there
    69:25
    that
    69:28
    pertain to
    69:29
    ufos being seen
    69:31
    over the ocean over over a body of water
    69:34
    disappearing into the ocean
    69:37
    i was never
    69:39
    never briefed in anything regarding it
    69:41
    underwater ufo
    69:43
    i know there were other others i’m a
    69:46
    member of a retired retired intelligence
    69:49
    association we have naval officer naval
    69:52
    intelligence officers in that and they
    69:54
    tell stories about what they had been
    69:56
    briefed into regarding uh
    69:59
    the ufo are you
    70:01
    under surf surface under underwater
    70:04
    uso which excuse me yes thank you thanks
    70:06
    nathan nathan uh usos uh then they and
    70:10
    there’s a
    70:11
    the most classic was a as a
    70:14
    submarine that was traveling in the
    70:19
    this was in the 80s uh chasing a soviet
    70:22
    submarine in the uh bering strait
    70:25
    um and they were i don’t know how deep
    70:27
    they were but
    70:28
    um
    70:30
    our submarines chasing they were a
    70:32
    thousand meters from the russian
    70:34
    submarine all of a sudden
    70:35
    this craft comes in
    70:37
    to view
    70:38
    on sonar
    70:40
    and it comes right up in front of the
    70:42
    the the uss submarine i can’t remember
    70:45
    what the name of it was uh
    70:47
    anyways whatever the name of the
    70:48
    submarine was
    70:49
    shocking the whole crew the 80-man crew
    70:53
    and not knowing what this thing was
    70:55
    they first thought that it might have
    70:57
    been something that the soviets had
    70:59
    fired at him uh maybe an underwater big
    71:02
    torpedo or something
    71:04
    but the thing just stopped so it forced
    71:06
    our submarines stopped
    71:08
    and now back in those days they
    71:10
    explained this this
    71:12
    uh
    71:13
    in fact i actually talked to spoke with
    71:16
    not on not in person but on phone of the
    71:18
    submarine commander
    71:20
    back in those days they didn’t have
    71:21
    monitors they didn’t if they didn’t have
    71:23
    uh uh cameras everything was on sonar so
    71:27
    everything was sonar pictured and they
    71:29
    see this picture and none of the sonar
    71:31
    operators the experts could figure out
    71:33
    what it was
    71:34
    it seemed to have mass
    71:36
    but it then it seemed to be less dense
    71:39
    than something that they would like a a
    71:41
    metal object
    71:43
    they couldn’t figure it out
    71:44
    but it did give the the the soviets uh
    71:48
    a chance to get away so to speak
    71:50
    and this thing stayed with us for a long
    71:52
    time when eventually we surfaced and
    71:55
    there was a uh a destroyer or a navy
    71:57
    ship
    71:58
    some distance away but came up
    72:01
    when they when they surfaced this huge
    72:03
    object came out of the water
    72:05
    it came up above the surface and then
    72:07
    flew above him away now
    72:10
    you know he says i didn’t believe in
    72:12
    ufos or anything like that now usos now
    72:16
    what what was that it couldn’t be one of
    72:18
    ours could it
    72:20
    so
    72:21
    after that and this was years after i
    72:23
    got out uh i tend to think there’s
    72:26
    something to it now whether
    72:28
    we they have a base
    72:30
    under the ocean like 32 only 32 percent
    72:33
    of our oceans
    72:35
    have ever been mapped so
    72:37
    uh you know we got
    72:39
    millions of miles of oceans out there
    72:41
    that we don’t know what’s down there i
    72:42
    mean there they were taught they just
    72:44
    recently i i was listening to somebody
    72:47
    talk about the indian ocean the southern
    72:49
    indian ocean and near antarctica
    72:52
    none of that’s ever been met they don’t
    72:54
    know
    72:55
    okay so
    72:57
    could degree basis down there
    72:59
    they’re very possible could it be some
    73:01
    sort of an interdimensional
    73:04
    craft
    73:05
    i’m not so much into that i’m not i i
    73:09
    uh dr put off did a paper on that too
    73:11
    and you really have to be
    73:14
    um
    73:16
    schooled in uh theoretical physics
    73:20
    to understand
    73:21
    the
    73:23
    what would it take
    73:25
    to fly something in an inner dimension
    73:28
    and then we see it
    73:30
    you know it’s it’s really complex
    73:33
    so i i’m not sure
    73:35
    i mean maybe it maybe there is and i
    73:36
    just don’t know about it
    73:38
    and i i mean there’s a lot of things out
    73:39
    there that i that you’re open to it open
    73:42
    to it i’ll be very open to it yes sure
    73:44
    well
    73:44
    i just want to say one more thing to
    73:46
    rick before i turn it to nathan yeah
    73:48
    rick i know it’ll give you great
    73:49
    pleasure to know that in my head when i
    73:51
    hear the names rick dodie and hal put
    73:54
    off
    73:55
    and kit green
    73:56
    and and admiral wilson like this
    73:59
    mysterious music goes off of my head
    74:01
    it’s amazing you’re one of the people
    74:02
    that makes that happen
    74:04
    i’m sorry i’m being an idiot but this is
    74:06
    so much fun you’re so much fun rick
    74:07
    thanks for playing yeah i enjoyed having
    74:09
    another show
    74:10
    well
    74:11
    and i guess i’m curious rick so over
    74:13
    time
    74:14
    uh as our science has advanced you know
    74:18
    we have gone from
    74:19
    uh understanding that you know we’re in
    74:22
    a we’re in a galaxy or a planet there we
    74:24
    even know there are many planets for
    74:26
    until very in the last i think you know
    74:28
    three decades or so outside of our solar
    74:31
    system and then we started imaging them
    74:33
    and seeing them but then going into
    74:34
    quantum physics understanding quantum
    74:36
    physics has changed the way that we look
    74:37
    at the world and then of course we’re on
    74:39
    the cusp of artificial intelligence and
    74:42
    we and people talk about ai like ai is
    74:44
    everywhere but we really haven’t yet
    74:46
    achieved ai we’re but we are close and
    74:48
    we’re working on getting there but we
    74:51
    it’s within reach and my point here is
    74:53
    as our science as our understanding of
    74:55
    what we are capable of changes does that
    74:58
    impact our understanding of what this
    75:01
    actually is
    75:03
    well absolutely
    75:05
    in fact
    75:07
    the
    75:08
    the scientific community the secret
    75:10
    scientific community
    75:12
    the uh darpa scientists
    75:15
    scientists
    75:16
    in the in the
    75:18
    secret rooms in los alamos and sandia
    75:21
    and lawrence livermore
    75:24
    they’re doing exactly that as as our
    75:28
    technology advances our scientific
    75:30
    understanding of the universe advances
    75:34
    we go in and bring out these objects
    75:36
    that we found years ago
    75:39
    and try to understand them more
    75:41
    now with our advanced
    75:43
    learning uh we might be able to
    75:46
    understand
    75:47
    this
    75:48
    object that we that we found that came
    75:51
    from an e.t the energy device or the
    75:54
    communications device or the the
    75:57
    propulsion system
    75:58
    um
    76:00
    and and and we do that and and and dr
    76:03
    putoff has has publicly talked about
    76:05
    doing that as as other scientists have
    76:08
    that okay as a as we understand science
    76:11
    more
    76:12
    but the problem there is
    76:15
    this technology that we’re looking at
    76:17
    came from
    76:18
    an entirely different civilization
    76:21
    in a different
    76:22
    different uh
    76:23
    maybe obviously different solar system
    76:26
    maybe even a different galaxy although
    76:28
    i think the consensus among dr puthoff
    76:31
    and most other scientists is it would be
    76:34
    from our
    76:35
    galaxy we we just can’t believe
    76:38
    that
    76:39
    somebody could travel
    76:41
    uh from from uh you know a billion light
    76:44
    years away or 100 million or something
    76:47
    to our planet so we would we would think
    76:49
    that most of of these were in our our
    76:53
    galaxy
    76:54
    and
    76:56
    and but
    76:57
    they’re made with a different technology
    77:00
    different materials
    77:02
    so we may never understand
    77:06
    alien technology yeah we might
    77:09
    understand some
    77:10
    we might and as dr puthoff puts it we
    77:12
    might understand the concept this is a
    77:15
    propulsion system
    77:16
    this works by something
    77:19
    we just have to figure out what
    77:21
    and something could be some
    77:23
    an item or a
    77:26
    element that we don’t have here on this
    77:27
    planet that they have in some other
    77:29
    planet
    77:31
    and then there’s a
    77:33
    there’s a also a theory that was uh
    77:37
    put out some years ago stan friedman
    77:38
    talked about this in his book
    77:40
    uh if in fact something came from
    77:43
    another galaxy
    77:45
    a different type of galaxy than ours
    77:48
    the physics on that galaxy could be
    77:50
    entirely different
    77:52
    than the physics here
    77:54
    now i don’t personally believe that but
    77:56
    because it’s just all one one one
    77:59
    universe i mean goes i’m not a scientist
    78:01
    though
    78:01
    but but i understand what two and two is
    78:03
    for and you know i can understand
    78:06
    mathematics might be the same but
    78:08
    there it could be some difference but um
    78:12
    i think that we have to really advance
    78:15
    our
    78:16
    knowledge
    78:17
    of the of of of the universe before we
    78:19
    could ever
    78:21
    try to understand some of the et
    78:22
    technology
    78:24
    yeah
    78:25
    um
    78:26
    rick
    78:27
    there i know there’s like there’s so
    78:28
    much to get to uh nathan and i are
    78:30
    struggling thinking about but but we can
    78:32
    we’re not going to we’re gonna wrap up
    78:34
    so we just have a couple more questions
    78:36
    if that’s okay sure
    78:38
    what were the emotions that you
    78:41
    uh felt and i know that you don’t
    78:44
    uh your job is basically to
    78:47
    look at an event and not apply emotion
    78:49
    to it to be dispassionate to be
    78:52
    analytical
    78:53
    to see what’s going on and then make an
    78:55
    assessment based on what you’ve seen and
    78:57
    with that with all that happened
    78:59
    regarding tic tac with dave fravor
    79:02
    alex
    79:03
    chad underwood uh the guys and gals that
    79:06
    were on the uh uss princeton uh the uh
    79:10
    aegis radar cruiser
    79:12
    um
    79:13
    the e2 hawkeye folks what was your
    79:15
    assessment of of
    79:17
    that how did you process that
    79:19
    information and what did you think about
    79:21
    it
    79:22
    i interviewed all right i sat and talked
    79:25
    with an interview my i sat and i spoke
    79:28
    with a lot of them
    79:29
    at uh at different locations something
    79:32
    ufo mentioned in other places uh we were
    79:35
    brought together in california
    79:37
    uh about a year and a half ago and and
    79:40
    and it was
    79:42
    at a hotel room and it was a roundtable
    79:44
    discussion
    79:45
    um
    79:47
    they were every single person that
    79:49
    witnessed the tic-tac
    79:51
    the uss nimitz or the the uh
    79:54
    the um
    79:55
    the roosevelt case the pilots
    79:58
    um
    79:59
    they were all very passionate
    80:00
    i i believe everything they said

  11. rosettasister Says:

    80:00
    i i believe everything they said
    80:04
    uh they spoke from the heart
    80:07
    uh they didn’t exaggerate
    80:09
    you know amazing thing about pilots i
    80:12
    mean and i really admire pilots of
    80:14
    course
    80:14
    t.j.u is that they
    80:17
    they are great observers
    80:20
    and
    80:21
    they’ll tell you what they see
    80:23
    and that’s it
    80:25
    and um
    80:28
    and and they
    80:29
    they follow
    80:31
    they follow instructions and of course
    80:32
    they have to fly in his plane that you
    80:35
    know one small mistake and i mean and i
    80:38
    saw it from the ground on this combat
    80:39
    controller
    80:40
    you know i tell a pilot you know you got
    80:42
    a hole in this one holding pattern and
    80:45
    it might be a really small holding
    80:46
    pattern but
    80:48
    boy this f4 pilot’s doing it or this you
    80:50
    know whatever plane he’s flying
    80:53
    uh and they’re doing exactly what i’m
    80:55
    telling them to do because there’s six
    80:57
    other
    80:59
    but but but i admire everything admire
    81:02
    the the observation abilities of pilots
    81:05
    and i didn’t hear anything from any of
    81:06
    these uh either the air crew or the
    81:09
    ground crew
    81:10
    uh
    81:11
    that uh the the the radar plane the navy
    81:15
    what was that called yeah
    81:18
    e2 hawkeye
    81:19
    um
    81:20
    i didn’t see any i didn’t uh
    81:23
    see anything that i i thought was out of
    81:26
    the ordinary i believed i believe them
    81:29
    the the the pain the pilot uh the male
    81:31
    and female pilot the co-pilot were
    81:33
    flying against the tic tac
    81:37
    perfect observation articulate and
    81:39
    everything
    81:40
    talking about the speed that they were
    81:42
    flying the different headings that they
    81:44
    were flying and everything i mean
    81:47
    i don’t find anything
    81:49
    out of the ordinary with anyone that
    81:52
    witnessed uh these things
    81:54
    how i think what i was really getting at
    81:56
    is how how did you feel about what that
    81:58
    did that craft represent a different
    82:01
    level of uh some different performance
    82:03
    characteristics because you probably
    82:05
    hadn’t heard a lot of interactions where
    82:07
    you have you now have an fa18 that’s in
    82:11
    a in an orbit in a little bit of a
    82:13
    mexican standoff with a tic-tac after he
    82:16
    pointed his nose at that object on the
    82:18
    ground uh
    82:20
    that was hovering above the ocean so i
    82:22
    was wondering if that represented a
    82:24
    little bit of a shift in the
    82:26
    the paradigm in our interactions with
    82:28
    these uh these craft
    82:30
    oh yeah their description of what they
    82:32
    observed
    82:33
    uh was something uh was a craft that i i
    82:37
    had not uh seen or heard uh that were
    82:40
    was clearly probably uh based on my
    82:42
    knowledge in my
    82:44
    uh my history uh uh that wasn’t one of
    82:47
    ours it was definitely either either
    82:50
    something that russians or chinese had
    82:52
    that you know they developed exotic
    82:55
    technology or it was something from from
    82:58
    out of this world
    82:59
    but but i did have an occasion if i
    83:02
    could just interject real quick please
    83:05
    in the area 51 there was a ufo incident
    83:08
    that was flying the craft was flying
    83:10
    inside another’s test and training range
    83:14
    we had just
    83:16
    the f-16s were brand new back in the
    83:19
    early 80s and we just got two new ones
    83:22
    on alert at nellis
    83:24
    they flew out after this object now we
    83:27
    know
    83:28
    ground controllers knew
    83:30
    it wasn’t one of ours there was nothing
    83:32
    supposed to be flying and these two f-16
    83:35
    pilots
    83:36
    uh and i was happen to be near a radio
    83:39
    uh listening to they were on a the 230 i
    83:43
    remember the frequency 234.150 bam and
    83:46
    and they were
    83:48
    they were talking
    83:50
    back and forth
    83:52
    and and
    83:53
    listening and seeing what they were
    83:55
    trying to chase
    83:56
    and they said this is exotic we can’t we
    83:59
    can’t keep up with this and these are
    84:01
    brand new f-16s
    84:02
    so
    84:03
    i did have an occasion to witness
    84:05
    something like that
    84:06
    that that is an awesome awesome
    84:08
    narrative nick thank you uh rick thank
    84:10
    you for telling that and this this uh
    84:12
    f-16 still is an amazing aircraft and
    84:15
    we’re still updating him and flying him
    84:17
    i got to hear uh terry verts the
    84:19
    astronaut who has this podcast where
    84:22
    he’s interviewing his friend who’s an f
    84:24
    current f-35 pilot and they’re going
    84:26
    over the differences and it’s amazing
    84:28
    but the f-16 remains uh an absolutely
    84:32
    amazing uh aircraft still today so
    84:36
    um all right so um i think we we really
    84:40
    kind of want to wrap it up now uh rick i
    84:43
    guess we would ask you um
    84:46
    what disclosure
    84:48
    what level of disclosure do you think
    84:50
    the american people should get
    84:52
    uh how much do you think they should
    84:54
    know um and why do you why do you feel
    84:57
    that way whatever that level is
    85:00
    i think they should they should get the
    85:02
    uh
    85:03
    the basics i i don’t think there’s
    85:06
    there’s a lot of information out there
    85:07
    that they should they they don’t want to
    85:09
    know uh they they probably shouldn’t
    85:11
    know uh highly technical stuff
    85:14
    technology that we developed
    85:16
    from the et’s uh propulsion
    85:18
    and uh
    85:19
    aerodynamics uh cloaking uh things like
    85:22
    that no we we’re not gonna disclose that
    85:25
    stuff because it’s going to get out to
    85:27
    the our enemies
    85:28
    i think they they should know the
    85:30
    history i have no
    85:32
    problems with them knowing the history
    85:33
    from 1947 on and and and if there are if
    85:37
    the government has information about
    85:39
    something that happened before that
    85:41
    that i don’t know about
    85:42
    i think they should disclose it that the
    85:44
    basic historical facts about our
    85:46
    contacts with ufos from 1947 on i
    85:50
    believe they should know they have the
    85:52
    right to know
    85:53
    and i think there was a program years
    85:55
    ago that wanted to do that and i’d know
    85:59
    a people that were involved in that
    86:00
    thing that program
    86:02
    and they tried to get the public
    86:04
    conditioned
    86:06
    uh
    86:07
    movies like the close uh
    86:09
    uh uh the day the earth should still
    86:11
    1951 that was supposedly
    86:13
    controlled by an air force captain who
    86:16
    had actually wrote the script to that
    86:18
    and so i mean all these these different
    86:20
    programs over the years
    86:23
    i think we were trying to condition the
    86:24
    public and somehow
    86:28
    somehow it got screwed up i don’t know
    86:30
    if it was by whoever’s controlling this
    86:33
    that i don’t know at all
    86:34
    or by our government i don’t know but we
    86:37
    we should have a disclosure and i think
    86:39
    skinwalker ranch
    86:42
    uh
    86:43
    walker the
    86:46
    pentagon
    86:47
    i think that’s somewhat of a uh
    86:50
    attempt to disclose some of it
    86:54
    um
    86:56
    the construct that you believe i i hate
    86:59
    to bring this up again and i i hate to
    87:01
    close with this but people are
    87:04
    interested to know is that how we would
    87:07
    obscure this and this mj 12 business
    87:11
    we spoke about earlier about how do you
    87:13
    how do you get people who have a need to
    87:15
    know not to know it do you know what
    87:18
    kind of a construct there was to be able
    87:20
    to
    87:21
    obfuscate this information or at least
    87:23
    contain it within a relatively small
    87:27
    group of people
    87:30
    no i i wish i knew
    87:32
    i you know that that question is is one
    87:36
    for
    87:37
    somebody well above my pay graze upgrade
    87:39
    but um i just you know i i just don’t i
    87:42
    don’t know um
    87:44
    mj-12 documents that’s we could we could
    87:47
    do a whole program on that that’s okay
    87:49
    that’s okay i i mean i i really
    87:51
    appreciate your candor i just i had to
    87:53
    ask i had to get that one in there rick
    87:55
    you know
    87:57
    understand what
    87:58
    uh yeah rick do you uh do you do you
    88:01
    agree with the sort of sentiment
    88:02
    expressed by
    88:04
    reagan at the at the un convention um
    88:08
    you know that that this is a topic
    88:11
    that would really kind of bring the
    88:12
    world together you know in fact louis
    88:14
    lozando
    88:15
    i think just yesterday in an interview
    88:18
    you know was really trying to call for
    88:20
    a global effort to understand this and
    88:23
    to work together on this topic
    88:26
    do you share that sentiment do you think
    88:28
    that do you show that optimism this
    88:30
    would be a unifying factor for the world
    88:33
    yes yes i agree with
    88:35
    with that statement that lou made i
    88:38
    i i agree and we should be a personal a
    88:42
    topic that brought through the united
    88:44
    nations
    88:45
    um where each country can come forth and
    88:48
    and um
    88:50
    spill the beans so to speak
    88:51
    i don’t know that that’s ever gonna
    88:53
    happen because there’s
    88:54
    um there’s so much information that’s
    88:58
    it’s compartmented
    88:59
    from our government that we’re not going
    89:01
    to disclose and there’s i know a lot
    89:02
    from the russians i mean we can do it
    89:04
    out entire show on that what the
    89:06
    russians knew what the soviets knew with
    89:09
    chinese news so i don’t think that’s
    89:10
    going to happen i wish
    89:13
    i wish i wish it would uh we which could
    89:16
    have a full disclosure
    89:18
    by uh
    89:20
    the united nations
    89:22
    anything that would bring the world
    89:23
    together um
    89:25
    rick i i really can’t thank you enough
    89:27
    for coming here and sharing some time
    89:29
    with us and having some fun with us
    89:32
    uh laughing with us a little bit yeah
    89:34
    and and talking to us it uh i really
    89:37
    mean this as not only a podcast host but
    89:39
    firm and fellow air force brother it was
    89:42
    an absolute honor to have you here sir
    89:45
    um thank you very much i really
    89:46
    appreciate it well thank you for your
    89:48
    service too dj and it’s a pleasure to
    89:50
    know you nathan likewise rick hope to
    89:53
    have uh have you on again soon sometime
    89:56
    rick dodi ladies and gentlemen thank you
    89:58
    so much
    90:00
    thank you
    90:00
    you’re welcome
    90:02
    [Music]
    90:30
    you

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